Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of Dedham, Massachusetts, in television and film


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Clear consensus for deletion without a merge, as the content is generally regarded as trivial. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 13:34, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

History of Dedham, Massachusetts, in television and film

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I have the distinct impression that someone has tried to turn Wikipedia into Dedhampedia. This is one of 6, yes 6, articles on the history of Dedham. Dedham is a place of less than 25,000 people. That means it has less than a quarter the population of Provo, Utah. Yet Provo does not merit a seperate article. Provo is the center of its metro area, Dedham is a suburb of Boston. Boston only merits one article. Provo has been not just the place where many films were created, but it has been the intentional setting of a few films (such as Sons of Provo) and some scenes of The Other Side of Heaven. To me at least the intended setting is more important than the location of filming. Things get worse. San Francisco and New York City are the US locations with the most films set there, but there is no evidence that either merit an article like this. Add to this it is just a mass of trivia, many of the citiations are to non-reliable sources, and there is nothing showing this topic is notable. This Dedhamania has reached levels of absurdity. The fact that this page has existed for nearly 13 years just shows the negative results of Wikipedia having focused more on growth than quality. John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:33, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep If that's the best argument John has, I think the answer is to create an article on the history of film in Provo, not delete the article about Dedham. --21:54, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * the above unsigned statement is from the disruptive editor who created this article and so many others of our absurdly high number of articles on Dedham. It is a classic example of his trying to muddle the waters and avoid the real issue. The real issue is that this article is built on non-reliable sources, is a collection of trivia, and there is absolutely nothing indicating that this is in any way, shape, means or form a notable topic meriting encyclopedic coverage.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , I mistakenly only put three tildes instead of four. It was a typo, not an attempt to obfuscate. As such, I would appreciate a little a little good faith. If the consensus is that this article should be deleted, then so be it. I don't think the tone you are taking here and elsewhere is helpful, however. --Slugger O&#39;Toole (talk) 22:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:51, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:00, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:01, 5 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - Fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Absolutely no need for a stand-alone article on this topic, a lot of this content would likely be challenged as indiscriminate even in a small section within the Dedham article. While some of the content is reliably sourced, this is essentially a list of mostly unrelated popular culture references - so possible SYNTH issues.  There's no indication that these unrelated items connect to form a cohesive topic. Hog Farm (talk) 22:02, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per Hog Farm. Could be condensed to three sentences in the article on the town. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:25, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete This article is a case of WP:INDISCRIMINATE as illustrated above by Hog Farm. Best, GPL93 (talk) 22:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete This is getting into INDISCRIMINATE territory. Some of this can be merged to the main town article. Not sure the town deserves as many "history" articles, a single "History of Dedham, Massachusetts" may be enough. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 23:40, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep per finding the following:
 * Hollywood Comes To The Norfolk Registry of Deeds
 * Dedham: Historic and Heroic Tales from Shiretown, which mentions several films
 * Regardless, the content should be reduced to only secondary sources. That means no citing IMDb or filming-location websites. If there is very little content after such a culling, it should be merged to Dedham, Massachusetts. Pinging, , and to see what they think. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 23:53, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * This doesn't change my mind. It doesn't surprise me that several films have been made here, but this can get a one paragraph blurb on the main article. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 00:48, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * That's understandable. Thanks for replying. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 01:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think the sourcing supports the need for a standalone article. A section in the town's article is more appropriate. Best, GPL93 (talk) 01:18, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Merge to Dedham, Massachusetts. can ping me if they would like assistance in putting together the merged content. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 15:54, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , I would be very glad for the help. Would you like to take a crack at drafting something? -- Slugger O&#39;Toole (talk) 17:29, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Dedham, Massachusetts: Per Eddy and Hog Farm. Better move most (if not all) of the contents there. ASTIG😎  (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 00:21, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I trimmed the content as seen here. The sources I listed above have not been included yet. I feel like the remaining content could be condensed into a decent paragraph that could then be merged to the main article. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 00:32, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: Less a decent paragraph than a sentence, say. Are there any significant movies out there about Dedham?   Ravenswing      00:40, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete: Seriously? Dedham is not a giant metropolis with national or international scope: it doesn't even crack the top ten in population in its county. I'm opposed to a merge, because the notion that anyone is likely to search for the film history of Dedham is cockeyed. INDISCRIMINATE kicks in with the long list of movies that claim to have been "filmed in Dedham," based largely on IMDB umbrella cites of filming locations, where reading the sources reveals that Dedham was one of several locations ... and for all we know filming consisted of two or three stock shots.  While such careless editing is not a prima facie deletion ground, it's sure nothing to bolster retaining the article. Certainly there is no sense that multiple reliable sources give significant coverage to the concept of the film history of this small town. Given some other questionable Dedham-based articles (I remember the Enos Foord AfD well), JPL's "Dedhampedia" charge isn't offbase.   Ravenswing      00:39, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I mentioned a couple of sources above that provide significant coverage and removed the IMDb-related items plus similar ones. I assume you don't support the deletion of Dedham, Massachusetts and would be okay with a paragraph about films in Dedham there. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 01:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Of course Dedham should be kept, but I don't think that this should have very much space in that article. A film being written about a subject - That's important.  A film being primarily filmed in a city - Maybe important, depends on the film.  Part of a film being filmed in a city - not really important.  I think this content can be covered in a solid two sentences at the Dedham article. Hog Farm (talk) 01:26, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Honestly, one would do it. "Several Hollywood movies and TV shows have used Dedham as filming locations, including X, Y and Z." X/Y/Z being films with significant footage shot in Dedham (and that being supported by reliable citations), as opposed to a movie being shot in Greater Boston that used Dedham locations for a couple five-second stock shots.   Ravenswing      18:01, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge After reviewing #3 of WP:INDISCRIMINATE, which didn't exist at the time this article was created, I now change my vote to merge with the main article. As an Inclusionist, I hate to see encyclopedic information get cut, but agree that is the better place for it. --Slugger O&#39;Toole (talk) 03:23, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * This is not encyclopedic information. This is disconnected trivia.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:25, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Some of the films mentioned are not notable. In addition, in a few cases such as Civil Action, Dedham was one of about 5 metro-Boston cities where filming took place. In the case of the recent film titled Detroit, does it matter what particular courthouse was used in the filming. To us Detroiters the outrage was that someone made an allegedly historical film about events in Detroit but did not care enough for our city to spend the deveopment funds for the film in our city.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:13, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment We have already seen strawman attacks on those of us who want some restraint in Dedhammania. Norfolk County has Quincy with over 3 times the population of Dedham and Weymouth with over twice the population. To give another example of what this article produces, even after it has been trimmed a little, The Judge (2014 film) was shot in at least 7 places in Massachusetts and also in Pennsylvania, and is mainly set in a fictional place in Indiana.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:22, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * "We have already seen strawman attacks on those of us who want some restraint in Dedhammania." This seems like attacking while complaining about being attacked. A more professional conduct could be had here. WP:5P says, "Our encyclopedia combines many features of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers." As long as Dedham-related content follows policies and guidelines, there's nothing wrong with it. One can assume good faith and simply look at the facts on the ground and provide an assessment as to how such content should be packaged. The simple fact is that there is not much of a space on Wikipedia for the overlap of localities and films. Even List of films set in New York City is an unreferenced list article with nothing prose-based to share. Dedham certainly is a lot smaller, but its scale is ultimately irrelevant if the coverage does exist. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 15:54, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * There are 6 break out articles for the history of Dedham. That is jut plain absurd. There is not sustained, indepth, indepdent reliable source coverage to justify having this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:35, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect trivia which fails WP:NOTDIR and WP:LISTN. buidhe 19:04, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.