Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hitler bacon


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. By strict vote counting, this would be a clear delete. However, the article has been improved since creation and now has a good deal of reliable sources to show that it is not a hoax or a neologism. In response to Misterdiscreet's comment: WP:NONENG is policy. NW ( Talk ) 00:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Hitler bacon

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The page purports to translate and define a Hungarian expression, citing the Wikipedia editor's translation from A magyar honvédség a második világháborúban as a source. Even if this is an accurate translation (I don't read Hungarian), the content runs afoul of WP:Wikipedia is not a dictionary.

Page was prodded by User:NawlinWiki with the concern, "unsourced, apparent neologism". Prod was contested by User:Izomtibor with the comment, "I gave you a source, where it is definitelly used, and also explained more in detail, so can it stay?" Izomtibor is the page creator and has contributed all of the substantive content. Cnilep (talk) 19:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hungary-related deletion discussions.  —Cnilep (talk) 19:24, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions.  —Cnilep (talk) 19:24, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete looks like a hoax to me. The referenced book, cited only by an ISBN, appears not to exist. The term "Hitler bacon" appears not to be notable in the English language. -- Pontificalibus (talk) 19:35, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. The book does exist. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

hi! it is a translation of a slang. Same slang as faggot in the South Park meaning(Harley motorcyclist). If you think that it is bad for the non-hungarian speaking people to stress them with another expression, and the background of this, then delete it. btw in the meantime while it was on the wikipedia, I had to check the book page by page, and realized another interesting fact, that one of the latest cavalry charge was made by hungarian hussars(around 200 in numbers) against one soviet group at II World War I thought that I also could add that, but if this Hitler bacon is deleted then I will lose my passionate to enter it :) and another btw could you please tell me the copyright about it? so am I allowed to cite parts from book without any proper permission from author? the author: Ungváry_Krisztián the book: "A Magyar honvédség a második világháborúban. Budapest, 2004, Osiris (2. edition: 2005. February)" about hoax: google, hungarian-wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by Izomtibor (talk • contribs) 21:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC) br: IzomTibor
 * Delete ...and call me for Stalin-sausage or Botha-biltong. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 19:46, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - Violates WP:NEO. ~  Baron Von Yiffington  . talk . contribs 19:52, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comparing it to The F Word (South Park) is not a reason for keeping the article. C T J F 8 3  GoUSA 21:53, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete None of the sources in the search are significant. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 21:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, no verifiable sources so far. NawlinWiki (talk) 21:37, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per above as hoax and neo. C T J F 8 3  GoUSA 21:51, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Hitlerszalonnának (Hitler bacon) appears to be a genuine hungarian term 1 2-- Pontificalibus (talk) 22:04, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that I can read it, but the one looks like a wiki type site. C T J F 8 3  GoUSA 22:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying it's a reliable source, just evidence that the term is not a total hoax. -- Pontificalibus (talk) 22:53, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Gotcha C T J F 8 3  GoUSA 22:57, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment an answer for this: "...and call me for Stalin-sausage" -- Stalin_organ, Molotov_Coctail Izomtibor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.3.189.99 (talk) 22:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Can I get mustard with that? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 00:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It really seemed that you have made your decision only according to the name, so I have provided some other examples to clarify this. Have you reconsidered your vote? Izomtibor 00:28, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's see... Stalin organ, 22 references... Molotov cocktail, 9 references... Hitler bacon, mustard. I think I have. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 00:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * do you love mustard with jam? or is it only that you have not even read the first line of this article? at the article there is 1 ISBN number, and at this debate 2 other printed books has been mentioned Izomtibor 14:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

this entry gives a really picturesque support for this fact: Battle_of_Stalingrad "The Hungarian 2nd Army, consisting of mainly ill-equipped and ill-trained units, was given the task of defending a 200-kilometre (120 mi) section", "The German northern flank was particularly vulnerable, since it was defended by Italian, Hungarian, and Romanian units that suffered from inferior equipment" the real meaning of this word is that the hungarian soldiers has not received normal bacon at the front at that time but received only flavoured jam, so that is why they mocked that food with this name Izomtibor 00:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If it was considered notable and had it's own article on Hungarian Wikipedia, then we might consider something here. However it's not. -- Pontificalibus (talk) 10:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * the linked page is the bacon itself, while this article is about an artifical jam used heavily at the II WW to supply troops with cheap food Izomtibor 14:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember that the other language wikipedias are far smaller than the English one, (Hungarian has 156,135 articles compared to our 3.2+ million)--Milowent (talk) 05:17, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Where there be a mention of Hitler there will be strange things...and this is one of the strangest I've ever seen. Delete per either WP:NOTDIC (in which case move it to Wiktionary) or WP:HOAX, whichever applies. Ks0stm (T•C•G) 01:13, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * As an aside, note: |hu|Hitler%20bacon |en|Hitlerszalonn%C3%A1nak Ks0stm (T•C•G) 01:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * szalonna == bacon in hungarian, and the postfix is a grammatical stuff which is really common at that language Izomtibor 14:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  —Nick-D (talk) 07:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete TomStar81 (Talk) 07:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Strongest Delete Possible - This article has no need to be here. Come on a google search brings nothing important. This is an easy delete.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 15:30, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The Hitler bacon is not a hoax, I am Hungarian (look at my userpage) and this kind of jam really exists. When I was a child my mother called it as Hitlerbacon (hitlerszalonna in Hungarian) and it looks like a cube or a brick held in a piece of paper and not in a usual jar. But since then I haven't seen it. (It was in the 80s). But I think this is not a notable thing, but can be mentioned in the article of the (Hungarian) bacon. --Perfectmiss (talk) 19:16, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete It's not that notable to be its own article, perhaps as above, it can be mentioned in the Hungarian bacon (Szalonna) article?. -- B s a d o w s k i 1   09:20, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What the hell? Bad case of biting the newbies going on here.  This appears to be a new editor trying to contribute something of value to the project.  Assumptions of it being a hoax and neologism are lazy and wrong; the jokes probably not taken as friendly.  Its not like similar english terms don't have articles here, e.g., Freedom fries, or merged to a relevant place, e.g., Liberty cabbage.   I suppose the content can be merged into Szalonna (bacon) if deletion is the outcome.--Milowent (talk) 05:14, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - if the information is merged, the article should not be deleted, but rather redirected to the merge target (for preservation of history for GFDL). Lady  of  Shalott  15:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * True, that's ultimately what I would suggest.--Milowent (talk) 15:35, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Merge - to pumpkin. Lady  of  Shalott  15:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions.  —  Lady  of  Shalott  15:39, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * It will never last there though, that's my thinking. Szalonna is the Hungarian term for bacon, and the title is derived from that.--Milowent (talk) 15:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That might be a better place for it, as I think about it. Whichever place it is put, the other should link to it. Lady  of  Shalott  15:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Another possibility - move to Pumpkin jam and expand. Lady  of  Shalott  16:27, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - more possible sources can be found by searching Google scholar for Hitlerszalonna and "Hitler Szalonna". Since they are in Hungarian, I can not evaluate them. Lady  of  Shalott  16:39, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: I moved the article to Hitlerszalonna, as the chance that anyone would search for "hitler bacon" in English seems remote.  Using google translate I can find many references to Hitlerszalonna, it seems to be a common product that is often maligned not unlike Spam or Vegemite.  These references aren't in newspapers so far, but I suspect they exist if we keep digging.  I would like to suggest that any closing admin either relist this article for another week or userify to me to see if a stand alone article can be created.  Cheers--Milowent (talk) 17:15, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep. I agree with the remark above that several of the comments here seem lazy. There seems no doubt that it's neither a hoax nor a neologism, and nor is it any more a dictionary entry than the perfectly acceptable Spam. There is no reason why this article couldn't be expanded in the same way, with nutritional information on the product, etc. --Malleus Fatuorum 17:43, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep The article has been renamed and improved. Further improvements are needed, andmy Hungarian is not very good, but this is an interesting and notable subject. It's also written Hitler-szalonna, and is noted in numerous books and articles. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - I can understand that at first it looked like a hoax, but now renamed and with some sourcing I think it quite acceptable - it is no longer just a dic-def. Further sourcing would help, but may come, given time. JohnCD (talk) 22:08, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I contacted an editor who speaks Hungarian to see if they can help. I don't have enough confidence in the Google translations for the many Hungarian sources where this subject is noted and discussed to use them myself. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:15, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep This is a valid topic that warrants an encyclopedic entry. With the addition of information from the searches provided above, this can turn into a decent article. Cunard (talk) 22:47, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Not a hoax, and not a dicdef, but not notable either. I'm just not seeing evidence of significant coverage of either "hitler bacon" or "hilterszalonna" in reliable sources. Yilloslime T C  22:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete that something is notable in german does not mean it is notable in english. Misterdiscreet (talk) 23:41, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * How about Swahili? Its friggin Hungarian!--Milowent (talk) 23:44, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.