Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hold Nickar


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:58, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Hold Nickar

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

All current sources appear to fail WP:RS. I did some searching, and the few sources I found that might be credible fail WP:SIGCOV. Ffranc (talk) 09:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Originally closed as soft delete, re-opened by request of. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  14:48, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. No significant coverage in reliable sources. The best source I could find was Hampson's Medii Aeval Kalendarium (1841), which gives some alternative names, but searching these didn't turn up anything either. It appears that Hold Nickar is just an obscure alternative name for the Nixie. Everything the article says about this creature being the origin of Santa Claus is just speculation based on the similarity of the name with "Old Nick". Dan from A.P. (talk) 10:40, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mythology-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:29, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep he is a real tuetonic god that is talked about in a number of books and research papers. Here are a few: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Lancashire_Folk_lore_Illustrative_of_the/SOcE_kzT4OIC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Hold+Nickar%22+-wikipedia&pg=PT74&printsec=frontcover, https://www.google.com/books/edition/Words_of_a_Feather_An_Etymological_Expla/rie3DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Hold+Nickar%22+-wikipedia&pg=PT150&printsec=frontcover and https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Psychedelic_Gospels/zmAoDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Hold+Nickar%22&pg=PT12&printsec=frontcover. FiddleheadLady (talk) 15:31, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep My search also found several references in books and academic works that the subject meets WP:GNG. See
 * Folk-lore: Illustrative of the Superstitious Beliefs,
 * Hold Nickar is portrayed in the A Very Supernatural Christmas of popular series Supernatural, stated that the Supernatural had woven that narrative thread into the larger show mythology, both prior to “Weekend at Bobby's” (e.g., Hold Nickar in "A Very Supernatural Christmas") and  The Teutonic god, Hold Nickar, was used for inspiration, taking the form of Madge and Edward Carrigan for the creation of the Supernatural lore. This is a water demon, who is usually said to appear as a child with horse legs or an old man with long hair–see where the idea of Santa’s look came from? The Nickar water deities drowned their human sacrifices.


 * The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity stated that It is said that Saint Nicholas's legends were created mainly out of folk tales about the Teutonic god Hold Nickar, a malevolent water spirit who tips over boats and torments sailors, or even about Alte Hoerner, which stands for "Old Horney" and Nicholas' legends were mainly created out of stories about the Teutonic god called Hold Nickar, known as Poseidon to the Greeks. This powerful sea god was known to gallop through the sky during the winter solstice, granting boons to his worshippers below. When the Catholic Church created the character of St Nicholas, they took his name from "Nickar" and gave him Poseidon's title of "the Sailor".


 * In Russia he was Hold Nickar patron of the sailors and in ancient Britain his shrines could be found in seaports where they had to face the seas . He was a descendant of Poseidon or according to the Italians a descendant of Neptune; in the Netherland he was Sinterklaas (sancte or saint Claus).
 * his whole story is a quaint Christian myth that combined the characteristics of the Roman god Neptune (god of the sea, hence his being a patron saint of sailors) and of the god Hold Nickar(hence, Nicholas).
 * In northern Europe and the lowlands “ old Nick ” is thought to harken back to a Teutonic sea God, “ Hold Nickar , ” king of the sea nymphs . His other language articles have a bit more info. Thanks VocalIndia (talk) 17:16, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * ,, Hold Nickar may be mentioned in several sources, but as the nom said, it's a question of significant coverage – we need sources that discuss the subject in detail. Otherwise we don't have enough information to fill out an article. (The current article is 99% inaccurate, irrelevant, or insufficiently sourced; if kept, it would have to be trimmed down to a sentence or two.) WP:WHYN says "If only a few sentences could be written and supported by sources about the subject, that subject does not qualify for a separate page." Per my above comment, it seems from this source that Hold Nickar is a variant of the Nixie, and perhaps could be mentioned within that article instead. Dan from A.P. (talk) 20:04, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * What the hell? Above sources i posted are not passing in mention. All are paragraphs that help illustrate the notability of Hold Nickar. That's shows Hold Nickar is a real Tuetonic god and important for the foundation myth of Christmas. WP:IDONTLIKE here. VocalIndia (talk) 00:42, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you're offended; I was only hoping you'd clarify why you think this subject meets GNG. I don't agree that any of those sources contain a detailed discussion of the subject. I realise now that you're the creator of this article, so let me try and explain what I meant about it needing trimming:* The claim that Hold Nickar appears as an old man or a child with horse legs is not suppported by the sources – this is a description of the Nicor, i.e. the Nixie.* The claim that Hold Nickar is a corruption of Hjaldr Hnikar is cited to an unreliable source, in which it's clear that this is only the personal speculation of the anonymous author. I also don't see where this source says that Hold Nickar was depicted with grey hair and a beard; it only says this about Odin.* The "Legends" section of the article only mentions Hold Nickar once, in the first sentence, which is unsourced; the rest of the section is an off-topic discussion about the history of the Santa myth. This might be relevant information to include in the Santa Claus article (if better sources could be found), but it's out of place here. So if we were to remove all the unverifiable or irrelevant information, we would be left with something like: "Hold Nickar is the name of a Teutonic water spirit who was featured in an episode of Supernatural". This is why I said there's not enough information in reliable sources to fill out an article. I don't deny that Hold Nickar is a real (as in, really believed in) entity, but that alone is not a sufficient reason for an article (see WP:NRV: "No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists").Dan from A.P. (talk) 14:51, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
 * , I removed the unrelated legends section and focus on a Teutonic water spirit. I translated these sections from another language Wikipedia pages. You can see translation tag at the article's talk page.  There is now no justification whatsoever for this article to be deleted. VocalIndia (talk) 10:27, 15 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I think the article now has quite acceptable number of RS, with no excessive unrelated information. Htanaungg (talk) 08:12, 18 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.