Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Homunculi of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. There are valid arguments on every side of this discussion but clearly we have not come to a consensus on how to handle this article. I would strongly urge editors interested in keeping this material to engage in some discourse on how to improve the content to prevent future AfD nominations. Discussion on whether it is more helpful to merge/split/redirect this article should continue elsewhere. Shereth 15:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Homunculi of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Fails to meet the WP:GNG general notability guideline, since there are no reliable sources that can assert the notability of this article that are independent of the subject itself. Randomran (talk) 23:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Tenative Keep As I understand it character lists are permited here, and this page is more or less exactly that; however I do grant the page needs help. TomStar81 (Talk) 00:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:FICT and WP:N. No significant real world-coverage of the Homunculi of FMA for having one, much less two articles. Series has no main character list to even consider a merge to. Partially covered in main article Fullmetal Alchemist. If kept, merge the two into a single (and properly named) Homunculi (Fullmetal Alchemist) article until it can be merged into a proper character list. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 03:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I suggest we have a discussion about merging this with Homonculi of the anime. If we do decide on a merge, we'll start trimming some stuff down and find some sort of Out of universe information... RedEyesMetal (talk) 18:11, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Homunculi of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime is already tagged for notability and likely to be AfDed as well.-- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 07:32, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. There is no suitable article to merge to, and the article gives appropriate coverage to a subject of interest.  (Note that the homunculi are quite different between the anime and the manga.)  WP:PAPER. --Goobergunch|? 07:28, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Having no suitable merge target is no reason to keep, and their being different is also irrelevant. Differences should be covered in a single place, same as with any other series. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 07:32, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * However, this article does not violate policy. Last I checked, WP:N was not policy.  The article provides information of interest to FMA readers, and I see no reason why its information should be removed from Wikipedia.  I would be inclined to support a merge should an appropriate article exist -- but it doesn't.  --Goobergunch|? 07:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) It violates WP:N. N not being a policy is not relevant, it is a guideline and relevant one. However, if you'd also like a policy, it violates WP:PLOT. It has no real-world notability, and is pure plot regurgitation. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a fansite and not a guide to anime series. Excessive detail on the fictional components of a series belong over in the FMA wikia or an anime wiki, not here. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 07:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep WP:N not being a policy is quite relevant. If it violates no policy, then obviously the deletion argument that it does is hot air. Jtrainor (talk) 23:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions.  -- --  Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 03:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it isn't. Failing WP:N and failing WP:FICT are very valid reasons for deletion. Something does not have to only violate a policy to be something that shouldn't be included here. It also fails WP:PLOT (which is policy). -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 23:19, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete - The question of whether WP:N is a policy or not is irrelevant--it is a content guideline that has roots in both WP:V and WP:NOR and is thus used to determine what is and is not suitable for inclusion. More to the point, although I loves me some Fullmetal Alchemist, I can find no evidence (in English or Japanese) that this topic is notable in the real world, and so I would suggest that it be either deleted or transwikied to a more suitable location.  As an interesting aside, it seems that the list of FMA characters on ja-wiki is having the opposite discussion; one of the banners at the top suggests splitting out part of the article into a list of anime characters :P -- jonny - m  t  02:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Malinaccier (talk) 00:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete - no notability asserted as it stands, and no available merge target. Fails WP:FICT, WP:NOT. Someone nuke the excessive amount of fair use images on the page also. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 10:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge This is a characters list is it not? Just merge it (and many other characters) into a List of Fullmetal Alchemist characters article. Considering the ridiculous amount of cruft in Category:Fullmetal Alchemist characters which can be deleted, this should not be difficult.--  十  八  01:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Split. The best way, I see, to deal with this article is to split it into seven articles (one for each homunculus). Afterwards, information from Homunculi of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime could be moved into every character's article, detailing their portrayal in the TV series (and brief appearance in the movie). This is a valid alternative, specially when WP:ANIME members have demonstrated good articles on individual characters (Kakashi Hatake, Rukia Kuchiki) are possible.--Nohansen (talk) 00:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wrong way to deal with this. Your examples individually pass WP:N due to having real world coverage. There isn't any for any of the individual homunculi; ergo, they fail WP:N and shouldn't have any individual articles. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 06:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that's true. A "Character outline" is nothing more than a character bio written with an out-of-universe perspective. The homunculi have appeared in the FMA video games, so that covers the "Appearances in other media" section. And as to "Reception": we just need reviews that mentions how a reviewer likes or doesn't like any given character ("IGN noted the duality of Kakashi's serious persona in combat and his laid back, apathetic counterance when dealing with his students, but accepted that he is one of the most popular characters in the series"). "Creation and conception" can always be put together from notes found on the tankobon, DVDs and interviews. I don't that the article's problem is "lack of notability", the problem is that is an in-universe mess. Separate articles would be easier to handle since we already have some GAs to use as models.--Nohansen (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I realize what is supposed to be put into such articles considering that I wrote most of them. The models exist, but the question is whether such information exists. I very much so doubt that there's sufficient conception and reception for every homunculi to have their own individual article. Unless you can show here (and literally, here within the scope of this AfD discussion) that such coverage does exist, then they shouldn't have their own articles, as they wouldn't pass NOTE, and neither would this article, as this is a very specific subset of characters. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 23:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep as sufficiently notable for Wikipedia. Clear reader/editor interest.  Plenty of active work going on, too.  Best, --  Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles  Tally-ho! 17:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of Fullmetal Alchemist characters in keeping with GFDL attribution. Has been created and highly condensed as suggested above. ~SnapperTo 20:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.