Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hopwood Junior High School


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  ♠ 23:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Hopwood Junior High School

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The subject of this article is a junior high school in the Northern Mariana Islands. There is nothing especially notable about this particular junior high school; therefore, I submit that, like the vast majority of junior high schools in the United States, it fails WP:N. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 23:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 23:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands Public School System. Thryduulf (talk) 12:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - normally junior high schools are not notable. However, looking here I see that the school has won a whole slew of awards and is clealry notable within the context of Saipan. TerriersFan (talk) 20:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment I am open to a redirect but I strongly disagree with TerriersFan. Although the school has won a few awards, I doubt that this makes it especially unique or notable among all of the junior high schools in America. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 23:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Huh? There is absolutely no requirement for it to be "especially unique or notable among all of the junior high schools in America". There are sufficient reliable sources for an encyclopaedic article to be written and it is plainly especially notable in the Commonwealth in which it is situated for its many, not few, awards. TerriersFan (talk) 21:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Would you suggest creating an article for all junior high schools or middle schools in the United States? This is one of only five articles in the category "Middle Schools in the United States." Looking at each of those articles, none of them assert the school's notability and only one of them meets Wikipedia standards (the others need to be wikified, linked to, have notability established, etc.) I'm not sure that any of these five stand out as more important than the countless other middle schools in the United States. Also, is notability within the CNMI enough to establish notability on Wikipedia? That seems to be what you're asserting... A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 13:50, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - In a country as large as the US notability within a state or territory is plenty for inclusion. TerriersFan (talk) 19:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That appears to be an all or nothing argument. -- Explodicle (T/C) 16:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 23:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - This is a reliable secondary source that addresses the topic directly in detail per WP:N. -- Explodicle (T/C) 16:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * weak keep I think one of the few schools in an distinctive region such as this might possibly be notable. On the other hand, I am not really convinced of the objectivity of the ref. mentioned just above by Explodicle. DGG (talk) 23:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep reliable, independent, in-depth sources have been provided above. Passes WP:N regardless of what level school the article happens to be about.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  00:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirect per Thryduulf. No assertion of importance or significance other than existing as a junior high school.  A listing of all the teachers broken into teams?  Half the information isn't even verifiable and it fails WP:ORG.  Drawn Some (talk) 02:31, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per sources indicating passing WP:N. Contrary to what the pervious "delete" voter said, being the largest junior high institution in an entire US territory and the scholastic achievements described in the article are assertions of notability.--Oakshade (talk) 04:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep Every single one of the articles in the google news search suggested by TerriersFan is from the Saipan Tribune. I'm not sure if that counts as significant notable coverage. LK (talk) 04:29, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - are junior high schools considered notable in themselves? There seems to be some assertion that they are. High schools I think are, but junior high? If it is then there's no need for other notability; if it isn't then other notability outside of the local press is needed I think (otherwise I'm afraid we would be able to suggest notability for just about every first school on the planet...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue Square Thing (talk • contribs)
 * I don't think we should be making our notability judgements based on what type of school this is. This one in particular is pretty close to becoming a middle school, and deciding which articles to keep based on the structure of the American school system will lead to systemic bias. The quality of sources available should be the only factor here. -- Explodicle (T/C) 13:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Determining notability guidelines at least partly based on the American school system is a good idea for schools that use that system or a system with a very similar structure (for example the school system of a US territory), and presents no systematic bias issues. Using the same guidelines for schools in other systems is of course a different matter. Blue Square Thing's point, I believe, was that certain types of educational institutions are considered notable in and of themselves (e.g. physical universities), while other types (such as elementary schools) are considered not to be notable unless the articles demonstrate why they are more notable than the typical such institution. My personal opinion is that junior high schools fall into the latter category and that this article doesn't demonstrate sufficient notability outside of its local area to merit it's own article. Thryduulf (talk) 16:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * We've already got a general notability guideline that works fine without this instruction creep you propose. If we can back up everything in an article with reliable secondary sources, then what is the harm in letting people write articles on whatever schools they want? -- Explodicle (T/C) 17:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Quite. There is no requirement in WP:N for something to be notable outside its state or territory. If there was then there will be an enormous cull of articles. We can start with buildings, such as California Automobile Association Building, which may be notable in California but most definitely has no national significance. TerriersFan (talk) 18:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.