Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Horace Mann Elementary School (Oak Park, Illinois)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was KEEP. 23 keep votes and 9 delete votes (discounting the one added by a sock puppet), which is a borderline keep consensus. &mdash; J I P | Talk 08:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Horace Mann Elementary School (Oak Park, Illinois)
See also Articles for deletion/Horace Mann Elementary School (Oak Park, Illinois) (2nd nomination) for moved discussion of 2nd nom. --Rob 04:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

NN, D. ComCat 00:26, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. This is a slightly expanded version of a previously AfD'd and deleted article - see Articles for deletion/Horace Mann Elementary School. They have at least learned to leave out the bit about melting snowpeople. -- RHaworth 09:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I have now restored and merged Horace Mann Elementary School so that anyone can judge how different the new version is. -- RHaworth 10:17, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a far cry from "many parents prefer it"--Nicodemus75 10:19, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Currently operating public school, keep. Starry Eyes  01:09, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. "NN, D." is not even an intelligible rationale for a nomination.--Nicodemus75 01:18, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand Our Phellap 01:29, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, N. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Schools/Arguments. --rob 01:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. There is also a "Horace Mann Elementary School" in Broome County, New York.  (I think it's the Binghamton or Johnson City or Union-Endicott school district.)  I don't see a disambiguation page so one should be added if the NY school gets added.  I'm not a "keep" voter on elementary schools without evidence of other significance, so I won't be bold and do it.  There are likely many other elementary schools by that name, probably all of them not notable within their category but wonderful to a segment of their local community.  Barno 01:59, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Without the city/state disambiguation, there was an earlier HMES article deleted 10 Feb 2005 (with the usual wet-fish-slap debating points) at .  Barno 02:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * N, K. JYolkowski // talk 02:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Utterly devoid of anything approximating notability, unless having a field counts. Denni &#9775; 03:00, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, inherently-N. --Vsion 04:17, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Schools/Arguments. Un  focused  04:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, good work Silensor thanks for helping build NPOV coverage of education. Kappa 04:43, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That's what's Education and Education in the United States is for. Articles on individual schools don't help us cover education any better. - Mgm|(talk) 11:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep, but... Keep but needs expansion!--Newyorktimescrossword 05:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * keep please this school is important so we should include it Yuckfoo 06:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how this school is important (ie, in the context of the many tens of thousands of schools that exist).Dxco 10:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It's a sewage plant, it affects thousands of lives, we must kee... oh, wait, it's a school. Delete per Schools/Arguments.  Nothing special about schools. -  brenneman (t) (c)  08:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of school in existence. Those which represent something noteworthy merit inclusion in wikipedia, whereas this school sounds like just another ordinary school. Dxco 10:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with the school district its in until it's seriously expanded. - Mgm|(talk) 11:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep because it's a school. &mdash; J I P | Talk 11:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete because it's a school. --Bucephalus talk to me  12:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. This article tells me where the school is and how many students it has, and will likely not ever offer any other useful information, making it an unexpandable stub. Anyone who wants to prove me wrong by adding something othan demographic information is free to do so, however. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 12:14, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Doomed nominations of schools are not a good use of human or server resources. CalJW 14:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and stop AFD Spamming. Trollderella 16:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Schools/Arguments. At the very least, please have the courtesy to use full sentences when nominating an article for deletion.  Silensor 16:30, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Schools/Arguments and to meet my once a week quota of votes against schoolcruft.--Isotope23 16:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: if we're going to have articles on every single school in the world (which it seems some people are determined to make happen) can we please limit to info to that which will remain consistent for years? No one is going to update a quarter of a million school articles regularly (hell, many of these are AfDed as substubs, are voted to be kept and expanded, and remain sustubs for eternity). Principals come and go (my high school had 3 in the 4 years I was there), exact student enrollments change daily. Information like that should be supplied by external links to the high school's sites (which will be updated). Give an approximate size ("about 200", "over 1000" etc.) and keep the rest to relatively consistent stuff, otherwise, as the articles become dated, we'll have incorrect information, which I think we can all agree is not good for the project. -R. fiend 19:16, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * This is a reasonable request. Whenever possible we should be dating when the principal was in office, that way when they do change we can build a historical list of principals who have served at the school, including the years they served.  The same goes with enrollment counts, we should either round the numbers off slightly and state that the figures are approximate, or provide a dated source for the information so the reader is aware that these figures may have changed, as they tend to do.  Silensor 19:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Again, I don't really see this happening. Most school pages are stubs that will never be significantly expanded. Trying to make the scope of the school inundations greater by adding more pretty insignificant details is just going to increase the half-assed manner in which most of these articles are put together. Trying to have not only the current, but all past principals is going to fail. Utterly. The "best" that is likely to happen is someone will find their old high school and add who the principal was the years they were there, giving us a few names with some approximate dates and many gaps (with much still largely unverified). We have to face up to the fact that school articles by and large aren't going to get the attention they need to keep them up to date. There is plenty about the schools that won't change much over the years, and that is what people should be concentrating on when writing such articles. -R. fiend 22:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * You are quite correct. I reviewed all the school articles for the states of Texas and California, and found twelve that were more than a year old. Of those twelve, only two had undergone extensive revision since their create date. Another five showed adequate growth, and were no longer just substubs. The remaining five were pretty much in the same state as they were when first written, with little or no new information added. I expect this trend will continue when the huge number of school articles created in the last six months reaches a year of age. It seems people are keen to create a mass of stubs, but when it comes to adding meat to the bones, their enthusiasm is elsewhere. Denni &#9775; 01:46, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Can someone point out something about this school that sets it apart from any other public institution? Anything at all?--inksT 19:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, stub with little future, and because this AFD is a good use of time for humans and a waste of server space.Gateman1997 20:21, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete skjnmi Gazpacho 20:25, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy-delete as re-creation of previously-VFD'd content. --Carnildo 23:26, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Nominator made no effort whatsoever to support this nomination. Bryan 00:50, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I've reviewed my vote, as I promised elsewhere, and it's staying "keep". This appears to be a perfectly good article, no different than many other school articles throughout Wikipedia (and better than many to boot), so unless there's some compelling reason to delete this particular one I see no reason to. A school article that grows from its initial state is a good thing. Bryan 05:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Perfectly good article. Wonder why the original version was deleted. --Tony Sidaway Talk  01:05, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. -- DS1953 talk 05:59, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Interesting footnote to the importance of Horace Mann. Justinc 10:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep cmon, all schools are worthy of inclusion. Klonimus 05:16, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. This has a chance to be made notable. It needs to be greatly expanded though. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde 01:45, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete It's a school. It's non-notable. Bwithh 14:01, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep, interesting article, plenty of potential! Thanks! Babajobu 20:56, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete This article is nothing but a paragraph about a field. LyndaBaquero 14:01, 30 October 2005 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.91.78 (talk • contribs)
 * The preceeding was by an anon who tried to change somebody elses vote, and also signed there vote with a user's name. --rob 10:04, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn elementary school --JAranda &#124; watz sup 00:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * K, N. &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 05:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.