Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hoshin Budo Ryu


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 23:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Hoshin Budo Ryu

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Non-notable school of martial arts, poorly formatted article, no sources, and ther maybe copyright issues.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 07:57, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Still unclear as to why a legitimate Martial Art with members all over the US should be considered for deletion on Wikipedia. The article is currently in the process of being developed, so formatting is being taken care of. Sources are listed, there will be more as the article fleshes out. Ryulong please share your thoughts for the betterment of this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiteeagle71 (talk • contribs)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:00, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete The only "references" given in the article are to works by Rob Williams, founder of Hoshin Budo Ryu, and Glenn Morris, founder of Hoshin Roshi Ryu, and my searches have produced no evidence of independent coverage at all. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:41, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

This is a new article that is currently being built. I assure you these problems will be fixed in the near future as more people assist in its development. Personally I am new to Wikipedia and don't know all the rules, but does an article need to be complete in its entirety before posting to avoid deletion? I thought the goal was to encourage community support. This is a relatively new and growing American martial art with many members across the country and abroad who would benefit greatly from it being here. If this isn't enough for Wikipedia then I am sorely disappointed in what it stands for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiteeagle71 (talk • contribs)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It is not a method for members of an organization to benefit from inclusion on a website that is free to access. Wikipedia is not your advertiser. Some martial arts styles are notable. Hoshin Budo Ryu is not one of them.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 23:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If you think this is an advertisement you are mislead. By that logic you could say everything on Wikipedia is an advertisement.  It appears from your history, besides being way too involved with cartoons and video games, that you are just out to get American martial arts systems. What happened to you my friend?  Just go ahead and delete the article. You can delete my account as well.  All the best ryulong, you might find pride in this website but you can't take it with you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiteeagle71 (talk • contribs)
 * This has nothing to do with what I normally contribute to on Wikipedia. You do not use Wikipedia to get more people to know about your martial arts school. That is what you want done. The fact that I most often find these schools in my normal editing does not mean anything. If any martial arts style, be it American, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Australian, etc., if it's not notable it's going to be deleted.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 17:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

This is my ryu and I don't want to be listed here it appears there are certain parties who have a vested interest in keeping a new article from being developed — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoshinka (talk • contribs)
 * Delete as non-notable. No independent coverage. --DAJF (talk) 23:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That is not the case.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 23:44, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Hoshinka, I can quite understand your concerns, as I have had a somewhat similar experience myself. When I was new to editing Wikipedia I found that edits I made were being reverted for no reason I could see, and I thought at the time this was being done by an editor with a conflict of interest. However, I have now been here to realise that this was not so. "Anyone can edit Wikipedia" does not mean "anyone can put anything they like into Wikipedia". We have certain standards which subjects must satisfy if they are to be covered in articles. If an article does not appear to satisfy those standards then it is likely to be proposed for deletion. If you think the article should be kept then the things to do are (1) find out what those standards are, and (2) provide evidence that the article does satisfy those standards. If you can successfully do that then the article will be kept. Accusing other editors of having a secret ulterior motive for supporting deletion is not likely to persuade the administrator who adjudicates this discussion to support your case and keep the article, so, even if you believe you are right, doing so will not help your cause. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

It appears I have been blocked from editing the Hoshin Budo Ryu page. Can you explain how I am can "fix" an article I cant access. I see that your policies say an article cannot be about a person, band, club, etc. There are thousands of articles about these subjects. PLease explain Hoshinka (talk) 13:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing preventing anyone from editing the Hoshin Budo Ryu page. And the policies say nothing about forbidding articles on people, bands, clubs, etc. What you are reading about are processes put in place to remove these articles faster, should they fail our inclusion criteria.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 14:02, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the clarification. Initally, I saw that when Hoshin was searched, my art was listed but no article existed. The Hoshin Roshi Ryu article was not a neutral article. My intent was to create an article that explained what the art is, not the political bickering that ensued after the death of the founder of Hoshin. I am in no way trying to used this service as an advertising tool. I would be happy to remove any links that lead to our website, etc.I am new to all of this so any suggetions would be very helpful. I am looking for outside sources. I thought the quotes from Dr. Morris' book Quantum Crawfish would be notable. I am working on understanding what notable references are. Thank you for commenting.Hoshinka (talk) 14:30, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Links to your website are not the issue. The fact that it is your art and that you are trying to keep it retained on Wikipedia is the issue. Wikipedia is not a platform to gain visibility. And particularly not one for creators of subjects or the subjects themselves to be involved with in any stage.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 14:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you JamesBWatson for your constructive criticism. Can you please provide a link to the standards you mention in your first point and so that I can satisfy the second?Whiteeagle71 (talk) 14:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I see. Again, i was already listed on your Hoshin page. I am happy to allow outside editors to create/edit this article. Thank you for the clarification again. I will not contribute to this article if it is in violation of your rules. Again, I am new to all of this. Hoshinka (talk) 15:04, 14 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete there is no independent sourcing Dwanyewest (talk) 01:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey all, I've cited references throughout the article and added a couple more sources, please let me know if I'm headed in the right direction... Thanks muchWhiteeagle71 (talk) 03:20, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.