Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hot coffee

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP

Hot coffee
Seems to be nonsense, what's your opinion? Manik Raina 15:49, 15 July 2005 (UTC) and this could be a fine article, as mentioned above. Themindset 23:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - This case could create a precedence for game classification around the world and is likely to have historical significance
 * Keep - Who's the moron that even thought of deleting this? Please tell me!
 * Keep and possibly create disambiguation page - This issue has already entailed some remarkably significant precedents; in time, it may well be a much bigger issue than its parent article. Still, many users with an interest in Hot Coffee would also take interest in the main GTA:SA article. Re: The poster below, the Mortal Kombat controversy never had a catchy name. Scoff if you will, but a good title can seriously affect ion the public perception of an issue. Edit: "Seriously affection?" Yeesh, good thing I got some sleep since typing that.
 * Merge - There aren't special pages for Mortal Kombat's original controversy that created the ESRB in the first place. This is the internet celebrating itself. Giving this much merit to what Rockstar coders made to stay busy at work and what modders unlocked in a few afternoons is an insult to superior mods that took a lot more time and original work to accomplish.
 * Create disambiguation page People searching for "hot coffee" will most probably be looking for this article rather than actual "coffee". To be sure, though, creating a disambiguation page would prevent any unneccessary viewing. However, this article merits separate mention from the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas article because the controversy bears ramifications that extend far beyond the scope of the game itself.
 * Keep - Why would this be deleted? It's become hugely controversial, and marks a new chapter in the battle between video games and grandstanding politicians who don't give a damn about freedom of speech.
 * Keep - I heard about "hot coffee," came here, and boom, there was the article. It meeds to be NPOV but I think it's useful.
 * Delete. Although it made the news recently, it's already mentioned on the main GTA:SA article.--Mitsukai 15:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * See Video game's secret sex scenes spark outrage. A redirect would be inappropriate. Delete. Uncle G 16:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, though if I'd found this I would have redirected without merge to coffee... CDC   (talk)  17:21, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete we don't need an article about every bit of dialogue in the game. Friday 17:24, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - expand into an article abotu the controversy. Ravedave 19:56, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - With some work it can be a fine article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GregNorc (talk • contribs) 21:35, 15 July 2005 UTC
 * Keep - expand into article about the Controversy
 * Keep - again, more info on the controversy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.99.128.182 (talk • contribs) 01:34, 16 July 2005 UTC
 * Keep this is a massive news issue at the moment, though the minimal information at the moment is about the mod itself, rather than the controversy itself. If you believe it should be deleted, please just look at the news, GTA fansites will show you what is going on pomegranate 02:03, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep It passes even the far more stringent Google News test with flying colors. Of course, that would require the above mentioned additions to be made. --Icelight 06:51, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete borderline notable at best. JamesBurns 06:56, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and Expand Move to Hot Coffee mod - for the same reasons as Icelight and Themindset. Besides having national attention, this whole controversy has the potential to change the way ESRB establishes content ratings, as well as establish federal government intervention of the video game industry. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 08:23, July 16, 2005 (UTC) (updated 23:16, July 17, 2005 (UTC))
 * Ravedave, Themindset, Pomegranate, Icelight, and Lbmixpro seem to have missed the fact that the controversy is already covered in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, as Mitsukai pointed out at the start of this discussion. That article even links to the Wikinews coverage. Growing a duplicate article is silly. Break out the section of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas when it becomes too big. Currently, it isn't. Uncle G 11:11, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The article already exists. Much more could and will be added to what there is in the San Andreas article, requiring a seperate article. Would you suggest the HC page be deleted and then restored shortly afterward as soon as a couple more paragraphs are added to the section in the SA article?
 * Keep, unfortunately. It caused controversy, and might be the source of lawsuits against Rockstar Games.  Almafeta 16:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Deletion has to do with unjustified creation of a seperate and specific article, not with cultural relevancy of content. Topic covered in parent article. 162.40.146.88 20:09, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is developing into a rather large controversy. Hillary Clinton and Jack Thompson are both taking a strong stance on it.  In general, the gaming community is taking the opposite stance.  User:DrIdiot 01:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Merge Keep. My previous comments are irrelevant now - changed my vote a second time (for shame) -- jiy 17:22, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and redirect to coffee. And pour me one. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 13:14, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and merge content into parent article. Nandesuka 20:40, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas already covers the material and the hot coffee article should really be about (wait for it...) coffee. Dcarrano 23:22, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge The variation is notable as a news story, but the news stories generally reference Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. It's unlikely that many researchers will look for this content under the current name. In my opinion the GTA:SA article should feature this type of content (more encyclopedic) and move the bulk of the game details to the Wikibooks entry. Dystopos 23:59, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and thin down information in main GTA:SA article. -- Norvy (talk) 17:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Link to this from GTA:SA. I was going to add this under the controversy section in ESRB but checked to see if there was an arcticle to link to first. I was surprised to se it up for deletion. --Dustin Asby 13:15, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge Keep article and Merge Move contents to Hot Coffee mod ; provide disambiguation . 25  chatter 00:31, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Useful information. I suspect that we'll see more of this kind of controversy in the future.  It would be useful to be able to refer back to this incident. Chrysrobyn 13:16, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep THIS MADE NATIONAL NEWS AND THE ADEQUACY OF THIS ARTICLE ISN'T EVEN CLOSE TO ANY OF THE SHITTY ARTICLES THAT WOULD NORMALLY BE CONSIDERED FOR DELETION
 * Comment. Votes to delete the article have not generally recommended deleting the content, but merging it to GTA:SA under the "controversies" heading. Deletion pertains mainly to the usefulness of having an article under the name Hot Coffee -- NOT to the validity of the content itself. Many of the votes to keep the article seem to have been made without respect to alternatives to merge the content. The fact is that people will look for this information under GTA:SA, not by searching Wikipedia for Hot Coffee. Dystopos 23:25, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. Let's fast forward 5 years.  It turns out that Pokemon Unleashed has a mature hidden level that people are able to get into.  It causes quite a stir, "Like what happened in 2005 to Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas bug known as 'Hot Coffee'".  No matter what we do, the link to future events can point to GTA:SA#Hot_Coffee or to Hot_Coffee.  People will be able to find the event in either section.  So, does one who wants to learn about GTA:SA necessarily want to know about Hot Coffee?  Maybe -- so follow a link.  Does one who wants to know about Hot Coffee want to know about the rest of GTA:SA?  Maybe -- so follow a link.  In either case, they're related, but the content and audiences of the two articles are potentially different.Chrysrobyn
 * Keep This controversy is a thing in and of itself. It shouldn't be merged into a main GTA page.  --Starwed 04:24, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep -- this has gained media attention and the controversy/issue is significant in and of itself; however, the title could use some improvement so that it is more descriptive, i.e. "Grand Theft Auto - Hot Coffee (Game Modification)", and Hot Coffee should be a redirect to a disambiguation page. --Mysidia 12:47, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 17:38, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: In ten years, Hot Coffee will be more famous than GTA:San Andreas. Whether this article needs to be kept until then or recreated later is the question in my eyes. Given fast deletion policies, I'd be temtped to just keep it. --Steven Fisher 17:51, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep: The Hot Coffee is probalay the biggest contraversy to ever to hit the video game industury so far. This defentialy deserves it's own page. --Saint-Paddy 20:39, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep: Definetly keep, maybe rename. Disambiguation page would be good.
 * Keep: It's currently a "hot" issue (no pun intended). However, moving it to Hot coffee mod and having a disambiguation page isn't a bad idea. Douglasr007 22:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep: For reasons already stated by other users. In wanting to get right to what the "hot coffee mod" was, I turned immediately to wikipedia, as opposed to having to sort through mainstream news articles which would tip toe around the issue.  A Merge would also suffice. --Godheval 00:54, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Ray Spalding 01:27, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - major news...prob first case of Rating change ex post facto Bubbachuck 04:07, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep: I agree with above user. Definetly keep, maybe rename. Disambiguation could be used, but isn't really needed.
 * You are aware that hot coffee is also a beverage? Dystopos 05:07, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, huge controversy in VG industry, very notable subject, etc. claviola (talk to me)  15:05, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Move to Hot Coffee mod but keep content intact. SYSS Mouse 16:22, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Move to Hot coffee mod or Create disambiguation page. That, I think, makes the most sense here. Overall the info should be kept intact as it is a fairly notable mod now. SF2K1 17:19, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Move to Hot coffee mod as above Courtarro 17:51, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Addaone 21:10, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. GatesPlusPlus 12:22, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Add screen shots under fair use. &mdash; David Remahl 04:05, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep. I think it's time for this.  Almafeta 05:34, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep &mdash;BenFrantzDale 18:27, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep: It's definnatly notable and should remain. Also about redirecting it I have some thoughts: 1) Despite popular belief "Hot Coffee" is not a mod, it was written into the initial code, but was never meant to be accesed. 2) Most people searching for the drink will most likely type in "Coffee" while people looking for this will type in "Hot Coffee" Deathawk 23:49, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Create disambiguation page. I typed in this page looking for information on the "hot coffee" political scandal thingy, and immediately found people suggesting it be deleted. I came here specifically to look for it, so I imagine it would be useful to others as well. Um, I'm not quite sure if I'm doing this voting thing right. Awk 01:03, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Add screen shots under fair use. &mdash; David Remahl 02:23, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Jimbobsween 02:55, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. This is too important to be deleted. In time, it shall find place perhaps in other articles, or maybe it will be cited by other articles. As Sarah from Attack of the Show said, I believe, "we'll soon have to refer to it as 'BHC' and 'AHC'; Before Hot Coffee and After Hot Coffee". -mysekurity
 * Keep Widely reported news topic with major political and social ramifications - Extremely notable above and beyond the patch itself. Gblaz 02:26, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep And move to disambiguate, if that helps. This "mod" is already among the most important legal precedents in gaming and so having a page to explain the software and the results is useful, apart from background information on the specific game.  JustinHall 04:59, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.