Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hottinger Group


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy deleted by per G11. See also Sockpuppet investigations/EW1987. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 01:54, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Hottinger Group

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Does not meet WP:NORG, WP:GNG. Virtually all of the article's substance is cited to the subject's website, press releases, or to articles interviewing employees of the group. The sole independent coverage is routine coverage of the subject's bankruptcy filing in 2015. I wasn't able to find anything better searching online in English and French. signed,Rosguill talk 02:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep The article requires enhancement and additional sources, which is work in progress. The business in its current form has not received significant coverage, but this is not uncommon in the family office and wealth management industries, where privacy and confidentiality of the founding family and family clients is paramount  . However, there is information and coverage relating to family members who have been instrumental in its development, component businesses and predecessors to the current Group.


 * The rationale for producing the article was that a number of disparate articles exist on Hottinger family members and component businesses, including and besides those which make up the current group. The Hottinger Group article seeks to unify and add to available content by describing the continuing legacy of the Hottinger family within financial services. A number of directly comparable firms in the industry (in terms of history, family origins, services offered, category of business) most notably Stonehage Fleming, feature as standalone Wikipedia articles. Further, there is an incomplete picture at present with articles on the Swiss bank Hottinger & Cie and the Hottinguer family (as well as individual articles on various members, but nothing in relation to surviving businesses bearing the family name). This appeared to me to be a gap.


 * The business was publicly recognised in the 2017 City of London Wealth Management Awards as Family Office of the Year, and the following year (2018) as Portfolio Manager of the Year. The business is nominated again in three categories for 2019 (results pending). This demonstrates notability and meaningful activity within the industry.

signed, EW1987 (talk) 10:57, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Notability on Wikipedia is determined primarily by the availability of coverage in independent reliable sources–while I can certainly understand that a family banking group would value privacy, when assessing whether or not the subject merits a Wikipedia article, we need to judge based on the availability of information, and the fact that the subject has a good reason for keeping such information to a minimum does not absolve us of the requirement. Furthermore, notability is not WP:INHERITED–just because some Hottinger individuals and companies are notable does not necessarily mean that the "Hottinger Group" is notable. Regarding the awards won, business awards are rarely indicators of notability, and the rewards in question appear to have virtually no coverage outside of PR publications, indicating to me that they are not exceptions. Businesses in general are held to very high notability standards on Wikipedia, (see WP:ORGCRITE for specifics). As for the article on Stonehage Fleming, well, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.


 * Finally, I noticed that on your talk page, there's discussion of a previous username that you used, "HG 1786", which would indicate that you may have a conflict of interest with the subject. Please declare any such conflict of interest or lack thereof. signed,Rosguill talk 17:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * In a Family Office the principals and the business are often intertwined (as in this case) so arguably there is a case for inherited notability. With respect to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, arguments on this basis can be valid and helpful in assessing notability and making decisions about the future of the article, which is the reason for raising the comparison.


 * Given that the family history is several hundred years old, not all sources are easily searchable online. I appreciate that you have conducted online searches in reaching your decision to flag the article for possible deletion, but there is additional relevant information in relation to the Hottinger family and their historical business interests located in older French language books, which almost certainly would not have appeared in an online search. With the help of a native French speaker (which I am not!), I am compiling additional references and material on the subject at present.


 * Whilst I understand that certain standards have to be upheld, there is no requirement for an article to be perfect upon first publication. I considered that this article was missing from the suite of information currently available about the Hottinger family and their business activities. By its existence as an article, it's possible to improve the quality of collective knowledge on the subject and also makes things easier for those without prior knowledge to understand how the somewhat confusing collection of individuals and businesses fit in with each other.


 * To my knowledge I have complied with the conflict of interest guidelines by disclosing at the outset that I have a connection with one of the entities mentioned within the subject of the article. I derive no benefit from the subject having an article, I simply felt it was a gap not to have information available on the current operating business interests of the family. I am now contributing to the discussion in the interests of ensuring that deletion policies are applied consistently and fairly. You are correct in pointing out that I misunderstood the username policy upon joining and as you saw, this was immediately addressed when someone flagged it to me. If there is something more I should be doing that I have missed, I would be happy to rectify this. Signed,EW1987 (talk) 21:48, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Sheldybett (talk) 03:24, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Sheldybett (talk) 03:24, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Sheldybett (talk) 03:24, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * This page needs enhancing rather than deleting.Hottinger (Hottinguer) family are of historical importance.Hottinger Group page should contain the narrative of their current and historical business activities.There are many integration facts between Hottinger family and the world of finance that are missing from this page. They had business dealings and close associations with the Delessert, Rothschild, Cazenove, Baring and Stern families, none of which has been captured in the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keeop9021 (talk • contribs) 09:11, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.