Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Howard Stableford


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  09:29, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Howard Stableford

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Contested PROD. Non-notable. Poor sources that do not demonstrate significant coverage about him JMHamo (talk) 22:25, 31 January 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ASTIG️🎉  (HAPPY 2022) 01:00, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:03, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. I tried really hard to find sources to verify the statements in this article, and felt ashamed that for one of the more noteworthy, I could find nothing better than a retrospective in the Mirror. His career does not appear to have attracted sufficient coverage to demonstrate notability. I was intending to nominate it for deletion myself this month (February). Yngvadottir (talk) 07:56, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep I remember he used to be everywhere in the 80s/90s: some details at the BFI https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2ba1bb342b and Radio Times https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?q=%22Howard+Stableford%22#top Piecesofuk (talk) 15:37, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - Nostalgia is not enough to prove notability. Per WP:GNG he needs significant coverage in reliable sources JMHamo (talk) 16:54, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
 * A week in the life of ... Howard Stableford: Howard Stableford was talking to Alice Wyllie.The Scotsman; Edinburgh (UK) [Edinburgh (UK)]. 16 Sep 2006
 * Typical Biker Name: Howard Stableford Rides: Harley-Davidson Road King Classic Interview by Olly Duke.The Daily Telegraph; London (UK) [London (UK)]. 16 Dec 2000
 * a Dinner Date with Howard Stableford: Sunday Mercury; Birmingham (UK) [Birmingham (UK)]. 07 Feb 1999:
 * My Hols;Travel;Interview;Howard Stableford, Hodson, Mark.Sunday Times; London (UK) [London (UK)]. 14 Apr 1996
 * Howard Stableford 60 SECONDS EXTRA!: Howard Stableford presented Tomorrow's World for more than 12 years before giving it up to go and live in Colorado https://web.archive.org/web/20121005235636/http://www.metro.co.uk/showbiz/interviews/38-howard-stableford
 * First four are available on ProQuest Piecesofuk (talk) 17:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The Metro article is already in use, and someone has added a Stage article that may be good, but it's subscription-required and I can't see it. (I let my British Newspapers Archive sub lapse because it had been a hassle to get it, and the search was such shite I never found a single usable thing.) Those you cite above all appear to be interviews (and I can't see the 4 on Proquest, though there may be another way to get to some of them.) To establish notability, we need the Stage piece to be an article, not a brief blurb, and at least one additional extended piece about him, preferably not also from when he was first announced for Tomorrow's World. Since you have database access (and likely UK library access to newspaper archives online, unlike me), can you find us any? I also have doubts about the reliability of the BFI page for citing his birthdate; what's their sourcing policy, are we sure they haven't pulled that date from earlier versions of Wikipedia's own article or something equally unreliable? Do any of the interview articles I haven't seen mention how old he was at the time? Yngvadottir (talk) 02:24, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I added the Stage article, it states that he was 25 (in 1985). It mentions he presented Newsround and Beat The Teacher, and his early radio career. ProQuest is available via the Wikipedia Library https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/users/my_library/, the four mentioned above are the first four results of 211 when I search for "Howard Stableford". The Telegraph interview is available at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/4747872/Typical-biker-Howard-Stableford.html The Guardian reported his return in the live one-off https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/nov/03/bbc-to-reboot-tomorrows-world-for-one-off-live-special Daily Mirror states that he was one of Tomorrow's World's longest running presenters https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/tomorrows-world-returns-what-future-10350906 The Independent report that when Stabledord and Judith Hann were presenters that the show peaked with 10 million plus viewers https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tomorrow-s-world-confined-to-history-as-science-takes-a-battering-in-the-ratings-133503.html Piecesofuk (talk) 02:49, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Assuming the Stage article is more than a short paragraph, as I said, it appears to be a good source. But we require multiple reliable sources to have given him extended coverage, and interviews like the Telegraph are iffy for that, so so far it's the only one I see. I added the Mirror, and that can now be removed, since Stage refs the other shows that I couldn't find a reference for, and it's an unreliable source that we shouldn't be using in a BLP. As I say, I'm also uncertain about the reliability of BFI for his date of birth; I think we should be saying only "born in 1959 or 1960", with the Stage ref based on that statement that he was 25 in 1985. But the Mirror article is actually on the occasion of that one-off reunion broadcast of Tomorrow's World, and I really don't think that's worth mentioning as such in connection with his career, which is why I didn't use the Guardian, which says nothing about his other work. It and the Independent don't count toward notability at all, they only mention him briefly in connection with having done Tomorrow's World. To keep the article, we need at least one more article about him (that isn't just an interview about his love of biking; the Telegraph article adds Changing Places and that he married an American, but is otherwise just celebrity fluff, I'm afraid). Is there one (or more) lurking behind a paywall? Yngvadottir (talk) 21:59, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't really understand why you're questioning the reliability of the British Film Institute reference. Is there any evidence that they're unreliable or pull their information from Wikipedia? They have his place of birth as Poynton, Cheshire which as far as I can tell was not in Wikipedia.
 * He was also President of the Institute of Patentees and Inventors from 1998 to 2007 https://web.archive.org/web/20130627092746/http://www.theipi.org.uk/History.aspx predecessors include Bob Symes, Rhys Lloyd, Baron Lloyd of Kilgerran, John Maitland (Conservative politician), Archibald Low and George Askwith, 1st Baron Askwith.
 * There's no evidence that the Daily Mirror is an unreliable source (no consensus according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources ) and it provides evidence that Stableford was one of Tomorrow World's longest serving presenters. Piecesofuk (talk) 23:05, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I've added an additional reference for his date and place of birth, it can be viewed at https://archive.org/details/whoswhoontelevis0000hayw/page/234/mode/1up It was published in 1996 so predates Wikipedia Piecesofuk (talk) 17:44, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee  //  have a ☕️ //  beans  // 02:50, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Meets WP:BIO with sources presented by Piecesofuk. They're reliable enough IMV. SBKSPP (talk) 07:36, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment Described in this article in the Daily Telegraph https://www.newspapers.com/image/752258794/ as "lead presenter of BBC TV's science and technology flagship programme Tomorrow's World" Piecesofuk (talk) 08:42, 18 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.