Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hubert Sevenich


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:59, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Hubert Sevenich

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Lacks notability. Sources are an unreliable blog (Stuyfssportverhalen), a database, and one very short obituary and its reprint. Fram (talk) 08:21, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:21, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cycling-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:21, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:21, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete I reviewed this yesterday. I think I may have been half asleep, and didn't notice the reprint of the one source I wasn't able to check. I did look through various newspaper archives just now as well and so far have found nothing, not even in German. ASUKITE 15:26, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. The problem with these early cyclists, from the general timeframe of the 1890s until around WWI, even ones who won major races of the day like Sevenich, is the sources are not always the best. I admit Stuyfssportverhalen is a blog, but I have seen no evidence of its unreliability. André Stuyfesant is a Dutch journalist and when I have been able to check his sources they always check out. The obituary that cycling4fans mentions as its source for Sevenich's death is the contemporaneous gold standard for such information, especially for German cyclists and is only physically available, in specialized library stacks or state archives. Shearonink (talk) 15:47, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Stuyfersant seems to be a very occasional journalist only, and his writing (with its many grammatical errors) doesn't really give confidence about this. Sevenich won a few races, none of which seem to be in any way "major" races at all though. Or do you have better evidence that the Grand Prix of Verviers was a major race? Or the "Frühlingspreis" in Dortmund (yes, there seems to be a somewhat notable horse race of the same name, and a more notable "Frühlingspreis" in Leipzig, and one in Breslau). I can't find any traces of these two races. Fram (talk) 16:57, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The early/pioneering cyclists don't always get the attention they deserved, the sources sadly are what they are, much of the news of that day has come down to 2021 somewhat ephemerally in form of casual mentions in contemporaneous newspaper columns or race programs, or even from written memories of past cyclists in "letters to the editor" written decades later. There might be more info hidden about Sevenich hidden away in crumbling archives but I can't get at much of that early stuff. If he's deemed not notable enough for a standalone article, well I've done the best I could. Shearonink (talk) 18:34, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 04:39, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. A blog is a blog; unless the author is widely considered an expert on the topic we can't use it as a source or to show notability. Do we have evidence that contemporaneous SIGCOV actually does ever exist at this level of cycling, or are we just assuming it must have happened and is sequestered away in some local offline archive? JoelleJay (talk) 19:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.