Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hugo Chávez's speech at the 2005 UN World Summit


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was redirected to Presidency of Hugo Chávez, if any more information is wanted for that article, follow the redirect back. --Sam Blanning(talk) 13:56, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Hugo Chávez's speech at the 2005 UN World Summit
Politicians make speeches all the time, and apart from the likes of the Gettysburg I don't think an article on an individual speech is very useful. It appears that in this speech Chávez said nothing atypical for him, and the speech was not regarded as a notable part of the summit concerned. Worldtraveller 00:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep I think this speech is up there with a Gettysburg. The article fails to capture the effects but from what I understand at the 2005 UN World Summit their were policy shifts by many countries and Chavez's speech essentially offered the intellectual justification for these shifts (and was seen as such).  We won't know for many years if the spread of Bolivarian ideas outside of Latin America turns out to have global implications,  but the fact that it might makes this article clearly a notable historical event. jbolden1517Talk  04:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 *  Merge and Delete Agree that this is a very short article, and if any of it is important enough to be included in Chavez topics, it should be moved into the Presidency of Hugo Chávez article. Unlike the LONG articles, whose deletion I oppose, this is a very short article (similar to the Personal Life article) which could be included in the other topics.  Sandy 01:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete or merge into main Presidency of Hugo Chávez - an article per speech for virtually anyone sets a bad precedent IMO Crum375 01:15, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Virtually anyone? You mean, if Hugo Chávez is entitled a speech article, then so is my hairdresser? But when did your hairdresser last address the UN World Summit, and how did this hit the international press? --Lambiam Talk 19:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually my hairdresser does have a way with words :P, but seriously, I meant to say (as someone else mentioned) that IMO speeches should become articles only if they can be shown to be pivotal in history, normally well after the fact, otherwise they go into the bio page. Crum375 11:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Commentary should go in Presidency of Hugo Chávez; Text should go in Wikisource. I support whatever makes that happen. Tom Harrison Talk 02:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Merge into Presidency of Hugo Chávez and/or Washington Consensus. Agreed that articles for individual political speeches is NOT a good idea, except for speeches that are so iconic as to be known by a name like Gettysburg Address. The content in here appears useful, hence the vote for merge not delete. Paddles 03:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge per Paddles. NoIdeaNick 04:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge. Zaxem 05:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Change title The article's subject matter and its content do not quite line up; it does not discuss the speech so much as the overall visit Chavez made. Nevertheless, I believe that visit was quite noteworthy for the following reasons: living in the Bronx myself, it's not everyday you get a world leader here; knowing Hugo Chavez's career somewhat, I do know that he cancelled planned trips to the U.S. before - so any visit here is noteworthy; last, considering that within a few months, Chavez began a noteworthy program of providing discounted heating oil aid to poor communities to the very area he visited, a program he started with Congressman Serrano (of the Bronx) whom he met on this very visit. --Daniel 06:33, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia isn't a place to house all speeches. There are plenty of places that have a copy of this speech that we could like to in a previously created article. --Dakart 09:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete. Has anyone considered Wikisource for the actual speech? &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 09:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete no speech articles please... - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 12:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes! While we're at it, let's also delete I have a dream, the Gettysburg address, the Sermon on the mount, Giuseppe Garibaldi's 1860 speech to the soldiers, This was their finest hour, Tear down this wall, and Ask what you can do for your country. Wikipedia is NOT for speeches!! --Lambiam Talk 19:00, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete, Wikipedia is not a speech library. --Ter e nce Ong 15:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge or transwiki. Probably useful material for citations on Chávez's bio page. &mdash; RJH 17:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. A Google search on [ ] gets about 141,000 hits. --Lambiam Talk 19:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - [ ] gets 50,000 and [ ] gets over 300,000. - Hahnch e  n 01:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. World history may contain some dozen speeches that changed the world and therefore are encyclopedic in their own right. This is not one of them. Medico80 21:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Most academics did not change the world. It is not a requirement of the professor test. Why should it be a requirement of a "speech test"? For many of the speeches that have an article it is debatable whether they changed the world; the claim that they did is definitely not NPOV, and so if this were to be a requirement the mere fact of having an article on a speech becomes not NPOV. The keyword here is just notability. --Lambiam Talk 23:13, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well ok, I regret choosing that expression; things don't have to "change the world" to be relavant, I agree. I don't know either how a speech's notabilty is weighted, I just recognize that a lot of them have been held in the UN :-) 15:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Merge to Presidency of Hugo Chávez (where it already has a good mention) and/or 2005 World Summit, where it does not. Z iggurat 23:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge to 2005 World Summit as per above. This should not have its own article. - Hahnch  e  n 01:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge anywhere relevant and consistent, per nominator and others. Ukrained 11:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, but should be mentioned in Presidency of Hugo Chávez, but not necessarily very detailed. This speech did not change history. &mdash;M e ts501 talk 00:41, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Transwiki to Wikiquote and mention in Presidency of Hugo Chávez. Stifle (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete - fork.--Peta 06:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge with main Chavez article. BTLizard 10:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Transwiki to Wikiquote and mention in Presidency of Hugo Chávez. --Kev62nesl 10:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.