Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hugo Gutmann


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 21:48, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Hugo Gutmann

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Subject fails WP:BIO1E, WP:ANYBIO, and WP:MILPEOPLE. There are reliable sources that examine the subject briefly, but only in the context of his relationship to Hitler. (Gutmann was just an adjutant officer who put Hitler in for the Iron Cross.) I don't think the bar for GNG swings that low and the fact that this article has been under-sourced for eight years indicates there was never much coverage on the subject to begin with. Like Stefanie Rabatsch, this is an article about Hitler masquerading as a biography about someone else. Chris Troutman ( talk ) 20:11, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:11, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:11, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:11, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:11, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * KEEP: Hugo Guttmann is mentioned in numerous historical texts as being Adolf Hitler's superior officer during World War I, and the man who awarded Hitler the Iron Cross. That alone is a noteworthy enough historical event to warrant inclusion on Wikipedia.  Beyond this, however, the relationship between these two men has been studied as a possible cause and catalyst for Hitler's later views of Judaism.  The post war relationship between the two men has further been studied as one of the best kept secrets of World War II, mainly that Hitler most likely protected Guttmann and advised Nazi security forces to "look the other way" on several occasions, allowing Guttmann to flee Germany and western Europe in the early 40s.  To top it off, the character has been mentioned and portrayed in at least two major films.  The one disadvantage to this article is that it needs more sources and inline citations.  The nominator speaks of years having gone by without much progress, however there is no deadline on this site and what is present now is sourced material and is more than enough to keep the article, especially given the unique historical contribution this man has made. -O.R.Comms 20:26, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, being Hitler's Jewish commanding officer for some time (and recommending him for the iron cross) clearly leads to SIGCOV and GNG - for details beyond "just" commanding Hitler for a non-1E period, including the rest of the life of the subject.Icewhiz (talk) 20:45, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, passes GNG considering his relationship with Hitler, as stated above. I agree the article needs additional work and RS citing added, but that is not reason for deletion. Kierzek (talk) 21:22, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Guttmann's connection to Hitler has been a subject of ongoing coverage in reliable and verifiable sources, included in the article and available elsewhere, that demonstrate that he pass the GNG standard. Alansohn (talk) 21:28, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * For anyone saying that the subject knew Hitler, could you point me to a policy, guideline, or essay for that assertion? I don't see anything at WP:HITLER that indicates having been around Hitler makes one notable. In fact, WP:INHERITED says the opposite. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 21:32, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Being connected to Hitler is not a notability guideline (no Godwin's law for notability). However subjects, such as this one, who recieved SIGCOV die to their Hitler connection are notable due to SIGCOV, regardless of the motivations of the authors of the sources.Icewhiz (talk) 21:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess the community agrees with you. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 21:48, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.