Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hunterdon Drug Awareness Program


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.   Wifione    .......  Leave a message  07:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Hunterdon Drug Awareness Program

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Non-notable local organization Orange Mike   &#x007C;   Talk  00:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. The two refs - both from the same local newspaper - only mention Hunterdon Drug Awareness Program in passing, the real subject of those pages being a person who happened to have an involvement with the HDAP. Hence I think it fails WP:ORG. bobrayner (talk) 00:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: Local news, especially one local newspaper, does not show notability. Joe Chill (talk) 00:53, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep. I am the person who made the page. Being it is a local organization, there is not much news related to the founding of the organization.  The links I cited are independent sources (Hunterdon County Democrat) regarding facts surrounding the starting of the organization.  I will continue to research to find other articles that speak on the origins of the organization, but I have yet to find any books or articles that speak directly to this topic.  If you feel the citations are incorrect, please let me know.  The information cited is in each of these articles, one of the articles was the obituary of one of the founders of the organization.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guedde (talk • contribs) 01:31, 30 September 2010 (UTC)  — Guedde (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep. I also see above (sorry didn't see it before) that it is a non-notable local organization, however, Hunterdon Medical Center has been listed for 2 years. This organization is the only non-profit organization of its type in Hunterdon County, with historical relevance of being built by the Hunterdon County community after a series of drug related deaths.  The organization exists to serve the community and continues to do so for over 33 years.  There is a similar organization that has been listed since 2007, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point_(charity) Turning Point.  Hunterdon Drug Awareness Program is also a registered charitible organization that serves a similar purpose as Turning Point (that being a social care organization helping citizens with substance abuse disorders dispite their ability to pay).
 * Keep. Finally there is a category of Substance Abuse Organizations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Drug_and_alcohol_rehabilitation_centers  Where there are plenty of similar organizations, for example Phoenix House http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_House who provide exactly the same services (substance abuse treatment) that Hunterdon Drug Awareness Program, and are not in talks of being deleted.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guedde (talk • contribs) 01:48, 30 September 2010 (UTC)  formatting modifications by Carrite, Sept. 30.
 * Guedde, please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. LibStar (talk) 13:51, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Hi Guedde. May I make a couple of suggestions? Firstly, although this isn't strictly a democracy, it's considered bad form for a person to "vote" multiple times; I would suggest that you remove or strike out any duplicate Keeps- you only have to say it once. Secondly, on on wikipedia, notability of organisations is mostly determined by coverage in independent sources (often newspapers). If you could find more good coverage of the subject - preferably something that's specifically about it, rather than mentioning it in passing, or routine local news - then I would probably change my position from "Delete" to "Keep". This coverage doesn't have to be a newspaper, necessarily. bobrayner (talk) 09:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Hi Bobrayner. Sorry about that, since this is really my first experience at this type of thing, I didn't know proper protocol, and I apologize for the bad form, it was not intended.  I wouldn't want to delete or strike out my 2nd and 3rd "keeps" as they were separate arguments.  As for finding relevant sources, the main source is the organization's website, and I didn't know if that was considered a legitimate source or biased one, since it is coming from the organization.  I have called an editor at Hunterdon County Democrat and they stated they have articles on the organization that are not online and are filed in microfishe (sp?) storage; not available for public viewing.  I will keep searching online for sources, but there's not a lot of press on the organization besides annual fundraising news, special event attendance, etc., none of which seemed really quotable/usable.  I do believe there are a number of similar type organizations on Wikipedia, located on this page:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Drug_and_alcohol_rehabilitation_centers.  For example "Clean Scene" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Scene is almost the exact same type of company without threat of deletion occuring on its page.  In fact that site even promotes the director's personal website, which I am certainly not doing with this organization.  Sorry I am being long winded, but I guess I'm asking not to have a threat of deletion, but I guess something more specific, such as if you feel my citations are not good enough that I have to delete those.  I would also like to know your thoughts on using the charitable organization's website as a citation.  Thanks. :)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guedde (talk • contribs) 19:36, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The subject's own website is pretty definitively not a reliable source, since it's bound to have a strong favorable bias. (Believe it or not, we've even seen cases where an organization's website listed it as being headquartered in a more fashionable city or suburb rather than the plebian actual location!) -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  20:26, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Orange Mike, thank you. I thought as much, which is why I have been trying to find other source material to document the organizations history and only quoted the organization by citing that is the place I copied their mission statement from.  I've gotten a response back from an Editor from The Hunterdon County Democrat and asked him if he could find better source material regarding the information I cited in Hunterdon Drug Awareness's Wikipedia page.  He stated he would get back to me.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guedde (talk • contribs) 21:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete I can find coverage that confirms it exists but there is no significant indepth coverage, just confirmations that this program exists. LibStar (talk) 13:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Yes well if you just click the link above that says books, being listed in multiple national treatment directories would indeed confirm that it exists. It is not a program, it is a registered charitable organization.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guedde (talk • contribs) 00:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * attempt to explain - the question is not whether the organization exists, but rather whether it is notable in any way; these directory listings are totally irrelevant to such a discussion, since Wikipedia is not a directory and does not exist to publicize your noble cause. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  23:19, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The following is an article listing 2 additions to their board in 2009. The article is solely about the organization.  It discusses the their board membership as of 2009 and discusses how the organization was founded.  I'd like to know if this information is a better source, since it is talking only about the organization and does just "mention it in passing" which was an earlier concern. In-depth coverage?.  Also this article HDAP budget shows the different budget resources used by the organization, such as state and county funding, fundraising, and foundation grants.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guedde (talk • contribs) 00:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. - I was able to receive many articles on the organization from the files at the Hunterdon County Democrat. These articles were then made into pdf's and the description has been revised to include these citations.  These new citations are almost all (except one about the organizations current budget numbers) focused on the organization and are not just mentioning the organization in passing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guedde (talk • contribs)  — Guedde (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * response - those are not reliable sources; they are irrelevant to this discussion. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  23:19, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * response - I'm confused, how are articles from the local newspaper (which is really the only newspaper that covers the local organizations, not relevant to this discussion? I really am not trying to pick her, I am genuinely confused.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.77.241.104 (talk) 23:23, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * response - Sorry wasn't logged in on that last response. I looked at your link, and all the articles I posted appear under News Organizations, or the Hunterdon County Democrat News Organizations which your link lists as reliable sources.  They have been scanned and posted on the internet as these articles were not kept online by the Hunterdon County Democrat.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.