Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ILNumerics.Net


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Also moving article to ILNumerics to help remove the appearance of advertising. (non-admin closure) — Jkudlick t c s 09:18, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

ILNumerics.Net

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The article is unambiguous advertisement. My request for speedy deletion was granted, although the article was restored when one contributor provided the following reasons: "The article exists for 10 years, addresses a technology used by an open source/commercial community of 25.000 users, won several awards". This reason itself sounds like advertisement to me. Also the "10 years" claim is inaccurate. Codename Lisa (talk) 19:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:22, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Computing-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:23, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Mathematics-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:23, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete as unambiguous advertising. Topic does seem borderline notable, though: this article on MSDN discusses it and I'm able to verify the award. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 12:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The MSDN article is about something with a similar name but not the same entity. Hint: The ILNumerics that MSDN talks about is free software. This one is non-free. See: http://ilnumerics.net/overview.html. I don't know if such a name collision can be legal, but a duck test fails here. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 14:32, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * looks like there was originally a GPL'd edition; see this Channel 9 post. The article used to say something similar: "After 6 years of open source development, the project added a closed source, proprietary license in 2011, aiming business and academic developers at the same time." Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 14:39, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It is the same software. You can find out easily by reading the content of the referenced article. ILNumerics were developed and published under open source license several years. This is (and will always be) available still - free of charge. See the references to nuget in the reworked version of the article. Thanks Numbers303 (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if I understood you correctly. Are you saying the current company stole the open-source version (and is now using Wikipedia as a free advertisement mechanism)? Or are you saying the opposite? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 15:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hm, I don't know if I understand your question. Do you see evidence of an illegal act? Where do you see advertisement or other violations of WP guidelines in the reworked version of the article? Please be specific. Thanks Numbers303 (talk) 15:16, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Wow! Looks like we have a total failure of mutual understanding here. Let me try again and see what I can make of this. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 00:22, 25 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. Thanks Codename Lisa for bringing up the issue! The article indeed sounded a little advertising before. However, it would have been obvious by little research that a deletion would at least be controversal. Also, it is better to give the chance for improvement and discussion before considering speedy deletion. I appreciate your effort in helping to keep WP clean and in trying to be effective. Hoever, most parts of the article already contained useful information. I have just addressed the remaining issues and reworked the article. Numbers303 (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * After reworking the article and adding several references to reliable and independent sources, these references have been deleted by User:Qwertyus with the reason: "popularity is unsubstantiated; sources are either self-published or affiliated, and don't actually establish popularity". This statement is not true. I will re-add the references  in order to proof the visibility of the project.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Numbers303 (talk • contribs) 15:34, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * A list of alternative projects were added in order to make the topic even more neutral and objective. However, the whole section has been deleted for unclear reasons: "none of this is reliably sourced by third-party comparisons". Numbers303 (talk) 15:49, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete for now as the best I found were some News and browsers links, certainly nothing better for a better article. SwisterTwister   talk  06:16, 25 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep To the uninformed Delete voters, it was the first open source quality piece of engineering we took on and that you probably have not seen in performance and made available for free. The firm and project has supported a notable act of furthering good causes, in free grants of 2008 as well as GPL terms beforehand and thereafter. The arguments pointing to commercial nature are dubious at best as the piece of firmware, trackingware and trojanware most of the skeptics, and myself too, carry is commercial in nature too and described on WP. Did you argue to delete them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.223.132.167 (talk) 23:53, 26 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete There's many other libraries in this field available as open source. ILnumerics is a commercial product. They will have other ways of advertising. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harbran (talk • contribs) 19:01, 26 November 2015 (UTC)  — Harbran (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep. 91.44.79.238 (talk) 11:21, 26 November 2015 (UTC) Clearly, ILNumerics is scientifically relevant – there even exists a diploma thesis about it: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/255988828_ILNumerics_-_High_Performance_Computing_With_.NET_-_Enabling_.NET_as_efficient_platform_for_numerical_computations_and_visualizations It belongs to the MATLAB/R family of scientific computation software all present at Wikipedia helping students and researchers all over the world to solve their problems. Deletion would only make it harder for interested people to find and compare the few programs in this area. — 91.44.79.238 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep. I can’t see any advertising in this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.172.128.106 (talk) 15:02, 27 November 2015 (UTC)  — 212.172.128.106 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep as the nomination reason (advertising) has been removed.
 * Disclaimer: I created this article in 2008. I also started the ILNumerics project and also participated in the founding of the related company in 2013. So I am biased, obviously.
 * Commercial: The fact, that a commercial entity is now supporting the project is not a reason to bann a topic from WP. (I do understand if some are angry for not receiving the same support for the free version anymore, though. But I don’t assume it relates to the topic here ...)
 * Advertising: if there was any in the article it has been completely removed. Btw: we did not edit the page for ages. We don’t see WP as marketing platform and will not change this perspective. Its less than 1% of our visitors coming from WP, btw.
 * Notability: WP:Notability_(organizations_and_companies) From the guide: „Notable means ...[that the] product has attracted the notice of reliable sources unrelated to the organization or product.“ This applies to all of: article on MSDN, another one by Scott Hanselman, ILNumerics was the cover story(WP:AUD) of the DOT.NET Magazin 02/08, several reviews   , and there has been this award (10k EUR, best of DACH area) .  Download numbers of the GPL version mirrors as posted by Numbers303 are verifiable on their respective (reliable, unrelated) sites. Together with codeplex and sourceforge they sum up to ~10k something. (Internal numbers are not publicly verifiable, hence not counted here.)
 * Nomination proccess: Both, the speedy deletion request and the speedy deletion itself are questionable here. See the proposed procedure WP:ARTSPAM: „Blatant examples of advertising masquerading as articles can be speedily deleted.... Before trying to get an advertisement masquerading as an article deleted, please check the article's history to see if an acceptable revision exists there. If so, please revert to the latest acceptable version of the article.“ (There must be one from the past 7 years since its creation?) From WP:corp:
 * "Clean up per NPOV,
 * Erase remaining advertising content from the article,
 * Delete the article by listing it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion if no notable content remains." But after removing any pot. promotional content clearly notable content remains. So a deletion is not justified. Phonologue (talk) 20:24, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We should consider renaming / relinking the article to: "ILNumerics" instead of "ILNumerics.Net".Phonologue (talk) 08:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note I have reverted the nom's withdrawal on the grounds that there are delete !votes. Kharkiv07  ( T ) 22:57, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi. The guideline governing withdrawal is WP:SNOW: There is not a snowball's chance in hell that this article may be deleted now. The least you could was to contact me and ask me to change my closure to a "NAC keep". Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 05:42, 1 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.