Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IMMAGINE&POESIA


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Delete. Many keeps, but none to refute the nominator's reason for deletion. The "Il Corriere dell'Arte" sources is the best that is provided, and it is not sufficient to remove the image of a non-notable but massively wiki-promoted organisation. The deletion of the Italian Wikipedia article, whil in itself not determining what we should do with it, is telling (indicative that the lack of sources is not due to a language barrier as well). Fram (talk) 16:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

IMMAGINE&POESIA

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I bring this article to AfD with trepidation. I believe that in spite of the appearance of the article, underlying it is a non-notable artistic movement. For example, no serious reviews or other secondary sources are presented in the article, and I cannot find any online. The article has lots of primary and non-independent sources, a case of WP:Bombardment. It also has dozens of article in other Wikipedias, which is consistent with their manifesto being translated into 28 languages (according to the article), a case of WP:Wikibombing (SEO), doubtless by the people involved. The list of related events is impressive-looking, but sources are self-published, blogs, etc. If valid, independent secondary sources can be found, I will withdraw this nomination. Speciate (talk) 01:13, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:44, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:44, 18 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete I've had little to no luck finding quality resources in English for this. It's not even mentioned in any type of notable art website or publication. It does look like most of the resources are Italian, so perhaps someone with Italian knowledge of art can provide their insight. A shame, looks like a lot of work went into that article! SarahStierch (talk) 22:17, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep Seems well referenced, well worked article...Modernist (talk) 23:11, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems... Speciate (talk) 08:24, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. I am the author of the article and I can say that, in spite of what Speciate writes, there are notable references re the Movement: poets and artists of IMMAGINE&POESIA were presented at the International Poetry Festival, organized by Peter Thabit Jones : http://www.peterthabitjones.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:international-poetry-festival-swansea-wales-june-2011 in Swansea, Wales in June 2011. (Peter Thabit Jones - Stanley H. Barkan International Poetry Festival - An Anthology, The Seventh Quarry (Swansea) - Cross-Cultural Communications - New York, June 2011.). At the Dylan Thomas Centre od Swansea (Wales) there is a permanent collection of poems by Aeronwy Thomasd linked to paintings http://immaginepoesia.jimdo.com/about-us/in-the-uk-dylan-thomas-centre/.
 * Since 2007 the Movement has spread in many different countries with important exhibitions and this is the reason for being on other WP.--Alessandroga80 (talk) 06:41, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. Neither of those links leads to an independent, reliable secondary source. They are in the realm of press releases and in no way establish notability. Speciate (talk) 08:24, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. There are already some secondary sources presented in the article like Montecarlo News. Although I believe that this article needs some improvemnts, but deletion is not acceptable. And if you think there should be only popular art movements then you have to delete half of the art movements from Wikipedia including: Intentism, Defastenism, Superstroke and many other art movements. --lapsking (talk) 19:24, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. That "source" you provide is a "comunicato stampa", a press release! Also, on your talk page several months ago, you stated that the sources for this article are no good. Speciate (talk) 23:57, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Anti-Comment: Still I say the article needs improvements, but if an eye has a problem, making it blind won't help, you have to cure it. --lapsking (talk) 04:13, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. Speciate is right when he says: I bring this article to AfD with trepidation. In fact it would be a big mistake to delete this article if encyclopedias and Wikipedia are meant to deal with culture and information. How many articles re contemporary Art Movements would be deleted for the same reasons ? Moreover I don't agree when he says there are no secondary reliable resources: La Stampa, the second national newpaper in Italy, in June published an article about the event Italia150 organized by the Movement  and Il Corriere dell'Arte, one of the most important Art Reviews in Italy has already published several articles related to IMMAGINE&POESIA, just to have an example: . Of course if Speciate has decided to delete the article he will not accept these references as he has not accepted the references from the UK: the Dylan Thomas Centre permanent collection of images and poems, organized by the Movement, and the Acts of the International Poetry Festival of Swansea. --Angler45 (talk) 19:59, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. I have not "decided" to delete the article, and you are providing press releases which are not valid sources. Speciate (talk) 23:52, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. SarahStierch says that's a shame, looks like a lot of work went into that article and I agree as I have contributed (like several other editors) to the article for the reason I know the Movement. Why does Speciate have to emphasize "Seems" when Modernist says: Seems well referenced, well worked article... ? The article is well referenced and well worked.
 * Articles on independent newpapers are considered press releases by Speciate, but in many other articles they are reported as good references. Moreover the page is well linked: many other art movements have less links and less references.
 * As Lapsking says, the article could be improved, but deletion is not acceptable: if you are in good faith and you delete it, you'll have the delete most of the articles re art movements ! I do hope you'll give it a chance--Aeron10 (talk) 06:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. IMMAGINE&POESIA is a well known artistic movement flourished in Italy and moved into many countries of the world. This movement was found a place in Wikipedia a few years back and I also contributed from India and Bahrain. Now it seems that this head is going to be removed, which I feel "injustice". So I strongly recommend to keep IMMAGINE&POESIA in Wikipedia, which will enable many young Artists and poets worldwide.(talk) 12:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. Being one of the editors of IMMAGINE&POESIA, I can say I know the Movement well. IMMAGINE&POESIA has been on en-WP for 2 years. I have counted 33 editors from different countries who for 2 years have worked on the article doing a lot of work as SarahStierch writes... then suddenly one morning Speciate decides to ask for deletion, without giving the possibility of improving the page, without giving suggestions before. I have always liked Wikipedia, but I think we don't need to have strict censorers, but persons who can help and suggest in cases like this. Some of the aspects that Speciate considers as negative, are very positive, according to me: if 28 persons have translated their Manifesto into their own languages and if they have uploaded the page on their WP, this means that the Movement is understood and appreciated in a great number of countries.
 * Speciate speaks of Wiki-Bombing and Wiki-Bombardment not considering that one of the first WP rules is to assume good faith: I think that many references have been reported in order to improve the page, not to promote the Movement. Moreover I have read that Bombardment is good when each source has a lot of information of its own. Since one of the purposes of references is to provide the reader information beyond what the Wikipedia article says, providing more sources of information is a good thing and this is exactly the purpose of those references. Last but not least, when the Movement has been deleted on the other WP, the main reason was that The Movement appeared only on blogs: now there is an official web-site
 * http://www.immaginepoesia.org. Please visit it in order to understand the true spirit of IMMAGINE&POESIA. I do hope that the Administrator who will take the decision won't throw away the work done by so many people in 2 years...--RiverTeifi (talk) 15:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. Would you care to explain how the editors of the Italian Wikipedia came to delete your article? Speciate (talk) 21:26, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply. As I wrote, the main reason was that till a few months ago the Movement appeared only on blogs, but now there is a professional, official blog. Please have a look: http://www.immaginepoesia.org. If the article stays and you have any suggestions to improve it, we'll be very grateful.--RiverTeifi (talk) 06:30, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

The french and italian versions of the article were deleted for the same reasons (lack of notability and cross-wiki spam) : Best regards, --Wikinade (talk) 20:55, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * For information
 * on :fr in 2007 (discussion here).
 * on :it in 2011 (discussion here)
 * Comment. Since the "movement" is based in Italy, its deletion from the Italian Wikipedia is especially telling. Thanks for your research. Speciate (talk) 22:46, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Anti Comment: I have simply updated with new info several pages of WP ... if updating means spam...well this is the end of Wikipedia. It has been clearly explained that many artists asked for having this page on the WP of their countries and several translators said to be honoured to have translated and uploaded this page. Is this spam ? Wikipedia has a team of translators: what are they for ? Is there a rule about the number of WP where an article may be translated ? As to the lack of notability, now there is an official web site, a permanent collection in France and in (probably) the most famous museum in Wales, many articles from newspapers and art reviews, the Acts of a Congress, a list of exhibitions in different countries: I don't think the other Art Movement have more valid sources...--Alessandroga80 (talk) 19:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. The tone of the article and of this discussions, with its angry declarations of importance by accounts apparently associated with the subject, are typical of fringe or minor groups using Wikipedia as a means of self-promotion. I am not convinced, after looking at the sources, that the group has the required level of substantial coverage in reliable sources.  Sandstein   18:05, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, basically per Sandstein. If this really is an important "movement", as opposed to a flash-in-the-pan fringe thing, you'd at least expect some sources in Italian where the movement supposedly originated.  That the Italian WP community drew a blank is quite illuminating.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 13:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC).
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.