Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iblees Kii Majlish Shura


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Black Kite (t) (c) 15:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Iblees Kii Majlish Shura

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Non-notable and lacking reliable sources Suraj  T  11:45, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Keep Benefit of the doubt. It's 75 years old, has 6 references. North8000 (talk) 14:47, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Notability It is notable and famous poem of Muhammad Iqbal. It is explained by Dr. Israr Ahmad. I have given the reference. It is also displayed on the official website of Pakistan Armed Forces. The references are as follows.

References

What more reliable sources do you need?--Board Topper (talk) 13:28, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Of the three 'references' above, only the 3rd appears to be valid and relevant. The first links to the Pakistan Defence Forces site - if the English text of the poem appears there I can't see it, while the second is a link to the WP article Iblees Kii Majlish Shura in edit mode. Board Topper please clarify. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete The six original references were in fact two completely bogus ones (one linking to the Pakistani army website and one to a link which edits the page), a link to a youtube video of a person reading the poem in English, a link to the poem in urdu text, a link to a youtube video of a person explaining the poem, and a single academic article discussing the poem. Notability is very far from being demonstrated. --Muhandes (talk) 22:21, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 23:58, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep The academic paper from Kent State appears substantial. In any case the author is of such stature that any of his works is quite likely notable by default. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment Of the three 'references' above, only the 3rd appears to be valid and relevant. The first links to the Pakistan Defence Forces site - if the English text of the poem appears there I can't see it, while the second is a link to the WP article Iblees Kii Majlish Shura in edit mode. Board Topper please clarify. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

First you have removed my reference and now you are saying that where is the reference? I can't see it.--Board Topper (talk) 07:36, 7 August 2011 (UTC) The reference is as follows: Is the website of Pakistan Armed Forces in front of all of your eyes. You can read the poem at []
 * References


 * Do you ever try to actually click on those links you supply? Even the last one does not work. The actual link is this It is a forum post with an unsourced and uncredited translation of the poem. How and what is this a source for? It also shows that the text in the "Explanation" section of the article is a gross copyright violation - it was copy pasted from this forum post.--Muhandes (talk) 07:53, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment note that the creator of the article and his sockpuppeteer were blocked indefinitely for sockpuppeteering, so don't expect any answers from them. --Muhandes (talk) 14:44, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Long comment coming up.
 * This poem is approaching one hundred years old, is non-English, and was written by the greatest Urdu poet of the age. Given the latter, I think that WP:NBOOK #5 must prejudice us in its favor; given the former two, I think there must be sources that we just can't access because they're not in English or they're not online. I've found some discussion in GBooks (including but not limited to here, here with "Council", here, and and here for instance, though some are snippets so I can't tell into how much detail they go.) It would also be helpful if someone was able to search on the Urdu title. The article as it stands is poorly sourced indeed, but the poem does seem to be at least minimally notable. Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 17:38, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cerejota (talk) 07:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

 
 * Weak Keep: Written by a notable author and is almost one hundred years old. I cannot get myself to say delete. Joe Chill (talk) 01:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BusterD (talk) 11:21, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment We have 5 keeps (North8000, Board Topper, gråb whåt you cån, Roscelese, and Joe Chill) and 2 deletes (Suraj and Muhandes). Leaving Board Topper aside, the points raised by the four other editors wishing to keep the article have not been addressed by either of the editors advocating deletion. In the face of this consensus, it is unclear why this AfD is now being relisted yet again. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 12:03, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment By searching under an alternative transliteration of the poem title, I have found 13 results in Google Books. Unfortunately I have no time to go thru them now. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 12:13, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment (important) Just spotted this rather fundamental fact: the article we are discussing, Iblees Kii Majlish Shura, is a mis-transliteration of the Urdu, and was moved some time ago to Iblees Ki Majlis-e-Shura, so the template above has been misdirecting us. No wonder the findings were so meager. The following valid transliterations should yield more:
 * --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 14:51, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 14:51, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 14:51, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. I am also bemused by this repeated relisting. Notability has been demonstrated, and it was clear before the last relisting that will be no consensus to delete. Let's concentrate our efforts at AfD on truly marginal cases, rather than articles on topics with obvious cultural significance. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:22, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * shrink and merge to author article - The author article in English and Urdu author article (Urdu wikipedia محمد اقبال ) don't even mention the poem, as far as I can see, so if it's notable then it should be in the author article. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.