Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ibrahim Biari


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 00:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Ibrahim Biari

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Not notable individual, Not a biography, No verification except claims by an interested party. Selfstudier (talk) 15:40, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - would be BLP1E if it was even true, but as of now we have no independent sourcing for even the existence of this person, their role in anything whatsoever, or their death. Earlier versions fail WP:BLPCRIME, and as there is, and likely will never be, any sourcing to backup the claims of an involved party this article fails the very lowest bar of having verifiable material sourced to independent third party sources.  nableezy  - 16:01, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Surely BLP1E and BLPCRIME cannot apply, as they are policies relating to living people. No editor is asserting that this is a living person. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Apply to recently dead as well, I think (if he is in fact dead). Selfstudier (talk) 16:10, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:BDP, absent independent confirmation of death BLP applies.  nableezy  - 16:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC) 16:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It says 'reliable' rather than 'independent'; we know the IDF isn't independent but has consensus already been reached elsewhere that it shouldn't be considered a reliable source? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:39, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Inquire at RSN whether the IDF can be considered reliable for the statements made in the article if that's a concern. Ifyou don't mind opinion, then read this " This is a deeply rooted culture of lies, which has become so legitimized that is has become an inseparable part of “IDF values.” In a sharply worded article published on the website Mida in February, Maj. Gen. (res.) Yitzhak Brik wrote: “Soldiers, non-commissioned officers, officers and commanders, even at the highest level, have no problem lying to the higher level, and the higher level likes it, because it doesn’t have to deal with problems it is not shown, and it can also continue to present a good picture to the level above.” Selfstudier (talk) 16:56, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Per WP:RS - Articles should be based on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. A reliable source for material is one that is independent of what it is covering, among other things.  nableezy  - 17:30, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Case in point, should we accept The New York Times' coverage of Biari's death as a reliable source, per WP:NYT, or do we take the view that as that coverage is based on a IDF press release and presumably not corroborated by an independent source, it is no more reliable than the press release itself? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 17:42, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not NYT coverage of the death, it is NYT coverage of what the IDF said in a press release and is attributed to the IDF. It confirms that the IDF issued a statement and what it said, NYT is certainly reliable for that confirmation. It also confirms that a Hamas spokesperson denied the claim, NYT is reliable for that too. But what is missing is any verification of his death and even if there was any, the man does not appear to be notable at all except for what the IDF say about him. Selfstudier (talk) 18:26, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn’t verify that it only verifies the IDF says these things about him. Yes they report that the IDF made these claims in justification of an attack, but they do not say any of it is fact. Just that the claims exist. And we don’t base articles on people based on unsubstantiated rumor. Even when sources document the existence of those rumors.  nableezy  - 18:28, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect or selectively merge to 31 October 2023 attack on Jabalia. There's some independent sourcing on this (e.g. Hindustan Times), but unless there's reporting on him outside of the context of the airstrike then I don't think we ought have a standalone article on the subject. He's covered more or less only in the context of the airstrike, and I think a redirect to that page seems reasonable. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 16:07, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not sure that the Hindustan Times is in any special position to add anything to the IDF report - I think they are just regurgitating the IDF press release(s). Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:16, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete/Redirect Primarily based on unverified information, better discussed in the 31 October 2023 attack on Jabalia article. Hemiauchenia (talk) 18:53, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete - I wasn't able to find anything reliable about this individual before 31 October 2023, in English or Arabic. There are some forum/propaganda posts from 2007 saying a field commander in Jabalia with this name was either killed (1) or had his foot amputated following an Israeli airstrike. Obviously not reliable sources. | Orgullomoore ( talk ) 19:15, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military, Terrorism,  and Palestine.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:54, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: this is just a name associated with an event, the Jabalia airstrike, and nothing more. There is no independently notable biographical information to be found here whatsoever. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:22, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete Non-notable individual before the event, dying doesn't change this. Redirect to the article about the airstrike; the individual may have died or may not have. This isn't the basis for an article. Oaktree b (talk) 21:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete --Andreas JN 466 23:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep. Seems like all issues have been fixed by now. Specifically the notability, and the known history are there. Other concerns were answers in the discussion above. Anything else to claim? TaBaZzz (talk) 23:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep: I think the editors who voted delete should be notified as the article seem to have changed substantially when they voted. The general WP:42 and notability are now well established using sources like CNN and Reuters. The coverage even before Ibrahim Biari killing is quite in-depth and I do not think proper WP:BEFORE was done as his name is mentioned - in time of the nom - in many sources.
 * FuzzyMagma (talk) 12:02, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Nothing has changed and all issues have not been "fixed", non notable, death not verified, single source (CNN, Reuters, attribute IDF press release). Selfstudier (talk) 12:28, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: Not a notable individual, BLP1E, single source. The entire article has lines "According to IDF", "allegedly" and "reportedly". What notable did he do in his life that can be clearly confirmed? Nothing. With regards, Oleg Y.  (talk) 02:53, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Whether this person truly ever existed can't be confirmed, see these comments. There is no WP:SIGCOV of him.VR talk 06:09, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete Along with other issues, not in favor of a ton of articles being created in the scope of the recent conflict.  Pg 6475  TM 19:48, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete as not notable enough for a separate article. —  Sundostund  mppria  (talk / contribs) 06:47, 11 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.