Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Idaho–Idaho State football rivalry


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Cbl62 has presented multiple independent sources that discuss the rivalry; the SNG WP:NRIVALRY defers to GNG. There's no requirement that there be coverage from sources outside the state of Idaho, which is the main delete argument presented. (non-admin closure) power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 21:04, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Idaho–Idaho State football rivalry

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Another creation of same editor. No independent citations to establish a rivalry, just marketing from official sites and game results. Establishment of games results alone from a series is not sufficient for WP:GNG. UW Dawgs (talk) 05:49, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 05:52, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 05:53, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Idaho-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 05:53, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Independent source added 12/30/17. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rick lay95 (talk • contribs) 20:37, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Byline is "By ISU Sports Information Sep 6, 2017" ; So is not independent and still fails WP:GNG (If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list.). UW Dawgs (talk) 02:31, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:02, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:02, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep. Several objective indicia of a rivalry are present, including geographic proximity (this is an intra-state rivalry); an official name for the series ("Battle of the Domes", see here); a traveling trophy (see here); history dating back to 1916; and frequency of play (played regularly from 1962-1998, less frequently before and after, but set to be renewed starting in 2018). Also, there is some coverage of the series as a rivalry, including (1) this from 1967 ("renewing for the seventh time a rivalry that was born back in 1916"); (2) this from 1975 ("the ISU-Idaho rivalry has an emotional history"); (3) this from 1976 ("Vandals, Bengals Stoke Fires in Time-Tested Rivalry"); (4) this from 2017 ("Bengals, Vandals to begin Battle of the Domes yearly rivalry series"); and (5) this from 2017 ("Bengals and Vandals Unveil New Rivalry Series, 'Battle of the Domes'"). Not a slam dunk but overall, I think there's enough to pass the WP:GNG bar. Cbl62 (talk) 06:18, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment I see Idaho State Journal and Idaho Free Press as independent sources that mention the rivalry. The others you listed are non-independent.—Bagumba (talk) 12:40, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The first four items are from those independent sources. The fifth may or may not be independent, but is significant for its discussion of the renewal of the rivalry with a conscious effort to brand and market it under the name "Battle of the Domes". Even if the fifth is not independent, we still have significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources, thus enough to pass WP:GNG. Clearly not a slam dunk but enough. Cbl62 (talk) 16:37, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep in-state rivalries of state schools are almost always notable. This is somewhat unique that Idaho State is FCS and Idaho is FBS... but the history still holds up.  Notability cannot be lost.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:33, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - if the rivalry was notable beyond a local level, there would be coverage outside of Idaho. My rule of thumb is that without broader coverage, the case can't be made that this rivalry is anything more than of local interest. TimTempleton (talk)  (cont)  21:14, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ansh 666 03:18, 7 January 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete- I can't see this being of interest to anyone outside of Idaho. Coverage doesn't appear to make this a significant rivalry.--Rusf10 (talk) 03:24, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   21:27, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep as a WP:GNG pass, per Cbl62's sources. Whether it has attracted coverage outside of the local area is irrelevant - that's not how we judge the notability of articles. Here, there appear to be multiple RS third-party newspapers within the state of Idaho that have covered this series as a rivalry over a 50-year period. And, that's enough to meet GNG. Ejgreen77 (talk) 02:28, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GNG with lack of significant coverage in multiple, independent sources. The biggest issue is that it fails the guideline WP:WHYN, namely that multiple sources are needed "so that we can write a reasonably balanced article that complies with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view". Otherwise, editors will just cherry-pick facts from routine coverage in recaps of individual games, as opposed to independent sources that look at the rivalry as a whole.  "Local coverage" is not as issue for me; its the limited number of independent sources.  A rivalry from say California or Texas would likely generate more in-state, independent coverage than a series from Idaho.—Bagumba (talk) 12:53, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In addition to the sources listed above, additional sources are found at Newslibrary.com. These include: (6) "The Rivalry? New players, coaches and a 1", Post Register (Idaho Falls, ID), September 11, 1997 ("There will be no bonfires, no mayoral bets, no side of ham that might be Fed-Exed from the Gate City to Moscow, or vice versa. Ask Idaho State coach Tom Walsh about the Idaho/Idaho State football rivalry, which plays for the 35th time at 4:05 p.m. Saturday, and he's too busy thumping the tub for a win, any win, to worry only about the black and yellow Vandals."); (7) "Return of the Vandals", Post Register, April 4, 1997 ("It took some finagling, but Idaho State Athletic Director Irv Cross and Idaho Athletic Director Oval Jaynes have rebuilt one of the state's best football rivalries."). We now have significant coverage of the rivalry in at least three independent, reliable sources. Cbl62 (talk) 16:53, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Digging through Newspaperarchive.com, there are actually dozens more articles discussing this series as a traditional rivalry. Here are a few more examples: (8) Bengals Host Vandals In Big 'Game of the Year', Idaho State Journal, Nov. 11, 1963 ("The moment of truth comes next Saturday for fans of Idaho and Idaho State when the two football powers clash at Pocatello in what is fast becoming a major in-state rivalry."); (9) Bengals Seek to Break Vandals Hex in Big Sky Football Opener, Idaho State Journal, Sep. 26, 1969 ("Idaho State will be meeting its biggest rival in football Saturday, the Idaho Vandals ... grudge match ..."); (10) Idaho State Too Much for Vandals, The Ogden Standard-Examiner, Oct. 4, 1970 ("The traditional rivalry, played before a capacity crowd at the ISU Minidome in Pocatello ..."); (11) ISU-Idaho is old home week, Idaho Free Press, Oct. 4, 1974 ("It's a traditional rivalry ..."); (12) Idaho-ISU game is Big Sky feature, Great Falls Tribune, Oct. 26, 1985 ("There's no question it's the biggest game of the year." ... It's an in-state rivalry ..."); (13) Idaho-ISU Grid Rivalry Fails to Stir Bengals, Idaho State Journal, Oct. 7, 1977 ("Ah, rivals. There's nothing quite like them. Take the Idaho State Bengals and their annual donnybrook with the Idaho Vandals ..."); (14) Emotions high in Idaho-ISU battle, The Idaho Free Press, Sept. 25, 1975 ("Idaho and Idaho State renew the oldest intra-state college football rivalry in Idaho ..."); (15) On the Sidelines, Idaho State Journal, Nov 7, 1965 (referring to ISU-Idaho as "the arch-rivalry").  Sources from the 1980s and 1990s have been hard to find, as the key Idaho newspapers do not appear on Newspapers.com for those decades, but we now have at least six independent sources dealing with the series as a traditional rivalry. Cbl62 (talk) 22:09, 17 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.