Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Illyrian history


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Illyria. actual merge target can be varied per consensus Spartaz Humbug! 17:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Illyrian history

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Article is a content fork of the already existing Illyrians, which has a history section. While the nominated article may appear big enough to warrant a separate article, about 90-95% of it is completely unsourced and also carries a whiff of copyvio. I propose Illyrian history redirect to Illyrians, in the same way that History of Ancient Greece redirects to Ancient Greece. Athenean (talk) 21:44, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep: the article is the history of Illyria. The comparison of user:Athenean is impertinent: Illyrian history stays to Illyrians like Ancient Greece stays to Greeks. I don't see a problem with this article and wp:fork is something completely unrelated. Nxenes i dalluar (talk) 05:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: As the contribs make clear, this appears to be a single-use, throwaway account used to follow me around, likely a sock or meat. Athenean (talk) 19:11, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete or Merge: as a pov for of Illyria, actually Illyria is de facto a historical article itself, similar to History of Ancient Greece, History of the Holy Roman Empire (all of them redirections). I suggest we improve the main article (Ilyyrians) instead.Alexikoua (talk) 13:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Asyou can see Athenean, the bit about the Trojan and Kadesh wars have been deleted, while the Bronze Age section is sourced from 'The Illyrians to the Albanians' by Neritan Ceka, one of the most specialized Albanian archaeologists. Also the page is completely sourced. As I am the creator of this page, I say this page stays existing. (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bardyllis (talk • contribs) 09:15, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment This account is a sock of a banned user, now indef blocked. Athenean (talk) 22:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Article is still a target of disruptive activity: several cn tags removed, fringe unsourced paragraphs restored,[] while ultranationalistic theories like the connection of Illyrians with Troy are described as 'acceptable'.Alexikoua (talk) 19:06, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

22:42, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 13:27, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Merge the three articles: This one, Illyrians, and Illyria. They are all about the same subject and already contain much duplicated material. What is needed is one good article to give interested readers the basic information on Illyria, its people, and their history. Kitfoxxe (talk) 14:21, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kosovo-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Slovenia-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment There's nothing wrong with a history article here, so though this article is poor, a content fork, I don't see any reason to delete. Maybe merging for now would be good. &mdash;innotata 19:06, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Certainly not delete, either keep or merge with Ilyrians. Ideally, if there's enough content available, there would be a cover article, an article focused on history, one on language etc. Nothing that can't be done with some copyediting. --Tone 19:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge, if enough content available make a separate article. --Eleassar my talk 20:36, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep, as above! --Vinie007 13:35, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, it can be used as a cover story to the main article Illyrians, just like Illyrian languages, Illyrian army, Illyrian wars, Illyrian clothing and so on other cover articles. It would be great if we have cover stories in every field, which text would be included in Illyrians article. Aigest (talk) 14:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: X history is just a pov fork of X, they are both about history. On the other hand X languages, army etc, are specialized articles. See for example Byzantine clothing, Byzantine battle tactics, Byzantine Cuisine.
 * It seems relevant to mention that the creator of this article was permabanned as a sockpuppet.Alexikoua (talk) 16:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

@Zjarri: until now you have just removed 5 cn tags without explanation and without placing in their place something (apart from one caption) and with a wrong edit summary...Alexikoua (talk) 08:32, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge/redirect. With historical, ancient cultures, there is generally no room for two separate articles for "X" and "History of X"/"X'ian history". The two articles will always, by necessity, be identical in coverage, because there simply is no conceivable aspect of the topic "X" that is not part of their history. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:55, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. As per Aigest.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 19:59, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge per Alexikoua. Also, it was created by master puppeteer, so one more reason to move it. Also, obvious content fork. P.S. Glad that sock is blocked, but he will soon reappear, as always. -- WhiteWriter speaks 22:05, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, @FutureP the content is already too expanded to be merged with Illyrians and it will be expanded even more, @Alexikoua I started sourcing the parts with cn tags and in case you leave messages to TC about my reply here I asked him before proceeding.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:42, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added at least two sources that weren't in the article and I will continue adding sources.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 10:25, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: I notice that large parts of the article, e.g. the entire "Legacy" section, are a cut-and-paste job from Illyrians, further weakening the case for a separate article, and strengthening the case for a merge. Athenean (talk) 01:18, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Merge per Kitfoxxe. A Macedonian, a Greek. (talk) 06:37, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge per Kitfoxxe. --Zoupan (talk) 09:06, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge per Athenian per FuturePerfect. Article is quite problematic. For example the entire section about Bronze Age is completely unsourced and probably not of any Historical value since I am not aware of any mainstream Archaeologist who has actually linked a Bronze Age site with Illyrians.Seleukosa (talk) 09:47, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Croatia-related deletion discussions.  —GregorB (talk) 19:00, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge per Athenian per FuturePerfect: article is very problematic.CrazyMartini (talk) 19:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.