Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Initiation (Theosophy) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. I note the 'merge' !vote right at the bottom, but have elected not to go with that as an ATD as there was significant concern expressed in other delete !votes about the material pretty much entirely being sourced to primary sources. If someone wants to work on a merge here and has the subject matter expertise, please flick me a note on my talk page and I'll undelete and redirect to preserve the history at that point. Daniel (talk) 00:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Initiation (Theosophy)
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Article pulling almost exclusively from primary sources (i.e., religious texts); non-notable esoteric equivalent of in-universe or fancruft topic. Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  00:34, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete: as the sourcing and the article scope violates WP:NPOV. बिनोद थारू (talk) 02:10, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete: No independent RS, article is a NPOV violation. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:58, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Noting that an article on this subject was deleted as the result of a AfD in 2009. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:59, 31 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion and Spirituality.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  05:50, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete No independent sources could be found, I don't believe this meets the criteria for having an article Big Money Threepwood (talk) 07:10, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete or limited merge? This is all massively overblown and pretty much impossible to read, never mind make any sense of. There are sources but I have no idea whether they convey any notability or support what is being said in the article. If there are any kernels of genuine and validly sourced information here then I guess that they can be merged, if not already covered elsewhere, but the vast bulk of this is incomprehensible cruft and has to go. --DanielRigal (talk) 12:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not the place for uncritical repetition of pseudoscientific meanderings like this: According to the Ancient Wisdom Teachings, death is merely a transition from one state of consciousness to another. While scientific materialists may deny the legitimacy of this view, physicists have long recognized that energy cannot be destroyed, even if it changes form. It is possible that an encyclopedic article on the topic could be written, but it has yet to be established that one is necessary; the default assumption is that concepts within Theosophy can be covered in the article Theosophy. I believe that WP:TNT applies: even if a stand-alone article can be justified, one would have to start over from scratch to write it. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 16:13, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete (I was planning to nominate this myself). I couldn't find any academic sources specifically about this topic. We generally don't have articles about initiation into religious/spiritual groups anyway. The current article is almost entirely based on primary sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 17:07, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nothing to suggest the subject meets Wikipedia notability guidelines. If it were, WP:TNT would be advisable. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:51, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Per lack of reliable sources. There are 6 or so other Theosophy articles that are similar to this one with no independent sources that may need deleting. Psychologist Guy (talk) 22:23, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete No secondary sources. The article has over 100 citations to theosophists Charles Webster Leadbeater, Alice Bailey, and Benjamin Creme. If secondary sources exist to write the article, it likely would need to be done from scratch without content like, "Sanat Kumara's "consciousness is of so extended a nature that it comprehends at once all the life on our globe. In his hands are the powers of cyclic destruction, for he wields Fohat (i.e. beams composed of "bubbles in space" used by Theosophical deities to materialize or dematerialize material objects) in its higher forms and can deal directly with cosmic forces outside our chain (i.e., outside our solar system)." Beings at this level demonstrate: 1) omniscience regarding events occurring on any singular planet; 2) the capacity to materialize objects; and 3) the ability to affect at a distance happenings in other nearby planetary systems." Rjjiii  (talk) 01:41, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge material supported by reliable sources to Religious initiation rites, which also covers Thelema and Wicca. Not sure why Theosophy isn't also mentioned there. Skyerise (talk) 11:53, 3 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.