Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Inland Southern California


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Stifle (talk) 17:48, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Inland Southern California

 * – ( View AfD View log )

No sources stating this area exists or is notable. All the article basically consists of is the introductions of two other articles, which have apparently been copied and pasted into this one. TorriTorri(talk/contribs) 06:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions.  —TorriTorri(talk/contribs) 06:24, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'm confused what is being argued- that there are no sources to be found? Here are a batch of books, a few news sources, and it's being used as a common term, though perhaps not by discussing it in much depth. If the issue is that it simply echoes two other articles, it appears to do so in proper summary style. tedder (talk) 06:36, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. If you look at tedder's searches, nearly all of the Google Books and Google Scholar results (that don't start a sentence or book title) actually refer to "inland Southern California", with a lowercase "i", suggesting that the authors were merely adding an adjective to "Southern California", and that "Inland Southern California" is not really an actual, defined place. There are fewer than 30 results for "Inland Southern California" in the Google News search - many of which come from a single newspaper. And even in those results, I saw no evidence that the Imperial Valley was included as part of "Inland Southern California" - they seem to limit the definition to Riverside and San Bernardino counties. If anything, "Inland Southern California" should redirect to Inland Empire. Dohn joe (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment If I recall correctly, "Inland Southern California" is a neologism created by the one newspaper you're referring to (the The Press-Enterprise) so they'd have a clearly-defined area to refer to in their articles, rather than the fuzzily-defined "Inland Empire". --TorriTorri(talk/contribs) 21:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Its an obvious region. Maybe the "I" shouldn't be capitalized as it isn't proper, rather a geographical region, but its the first word in the title so it is. Regardless, it exists, it is inland Southern California as opposed to coastal Southern California. 08OceanBeach SD (talk) 01:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: Inland SoCal also appears to be a coinage of the Press-Enterprise papers, see http://www.inlandsocal.com/. --Pete Tillman (talk) 18:49, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: Possible move, though I opposed deletion, I believe an attempt should be made to preserve the article. Desert Southern California already redirects there, however in the event that it is deleted, it may be more appropriate to move the article to that title as it is does exist and is notable. 08OceanBeach SD (talk) 03:41, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * A tourism bureau does not a reliable source make. --TorriTorri(talk/contribs) 04:40, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The name is listed on the California government website regardless of where it directs, which shows it is recognized by the state government. 08OceanBeach SD (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe I missed it, but I don't see either "Inland Southern California" or "Desert Southern California" on that website.... Dohn joe (talk) 05:36, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * What is on this page is "Desert region", which I think we'd call Desert region (California). Unscintillating (talk) 05:01, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll just state this as a comment, which is that I think that Desert Southern California, which is a redirect to Inland Southern California, should be deleted. Unscintillating (talk) 14:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - A news search brings 74K hits, however all of them are of articles in the newspaper listed above, however the term itself brings several other hits of usage of the term to describe the region in the article in question. Yet, I am unsure if those usages constitute the subject of the article, the region in question, is nortable. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 12:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete I looked at the references in the article and ran through four pages of Google hits for [site:ca.gov "inland southern california"]. I got many hits with the capital "I", but no definitions of the geographical area.  I found a geographic definition for "Southern California Inland" here.  IMO part of notability is identifiability (how can you notice it if you don't know what it is).  In this case, "Inland" might mean farther than 5 to 15 miles from the ocean, which is where the ocean stabilizes the climate.  Right now there are zero references that define the area, so this is an easy decision, plus it would be not good to leave this topic around without a clear understanding of what is being discussed.  Unscintillating (talk) 12:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment The definition that you showed for Southern California Inland is what this article is about. 08OceanBeach SD (talk) 20:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see that. CalRecycle's "Southern California Inland" is a set of three California counties.  Central Valley (California) has a useful map.  The map shows the mountains that are being used to define Inland Southern California in the lede.  But the next section in Inland Southern California about Inland Empire tries to include the cities of Riverside and San Bernardino, which are in the same watershed as Los Angeles.  Unscintillating (talk) 02:19, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment As far as I can tell, the only definition for "Inland Southern California" comes from the Press-Enterprise. The only definition for "Southern California Inland" comes from the Department of Resources Recycling and Recovery (CalRecycle). I've found essentially no results for "Desert Southern California" as a title. To me, while the concept of "inland Southern California" might make sense, we just can't create names for places. The best option would be to delete this article, and redirect "Inland Southern California" to Inland Empire (California). Dohn joe (talk) 20:57, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I see the phrase "Inland Southern California" being used on the page title of the internet page www.pe.com. But I don't see a reliable definition there.  Unscintillating (talk) 02:19, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment The article Inland Empire (California) is unstable, the current lede calls the area an urban area that is in effect the eastern part of the greater Los Angeles metro area, but the map shows two large counties that are mostly desert, and that include the urban area as a small section on their western edge.  Unscintillating (talk) 02:19, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Admin Request Please delete Inland Empire Metroplotan Area (redirect page) as a noncontroversial deletion. Thanks, Unscintillating (talk) 14:45, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete Not a real concept. I agree with others here that most references found are simply applying the adjective "inland" to the recognized concept "Southern California", and that the region or concept "Inland Southern California" has no recognized definition. IMO if you asked a dozen Californians if they have any particular concept of what "Inland Southern California" means, they would give you a dozen different answers. This appears to be another in a series of articles by User:08OceanBeach SD about supposed regions of California, which were pretty much cobbled together by combining a couple of counties into a larger group that may or may not have any recognition as an entity. All of these pseudo-regions appear to have been inspired by a single State of California document, an economic report which divided up the state into a dozen areas for convenience. An earlier example was Southern Border (California) which was eventually renamed to San Diego–Imperial (California) - I still don't see any point to its existence although it survived AfD. Another currently existing example is South Coast (California) which was redirected from the original "Southern Coast" and which is equally ill-defined.  --MelanieN (talk) 01:46, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - I was also using the article with the adjective inland in mind. I simply created it due to all the mentions of it throughout Southern California related pages, it seemed notable, however with all these references and logical arguments I am beginning to have a change of thought. The South Coast page has multiple references however. And I'm not sure what you mean by San Diego-Imperial, except for the fact that it is indeed an unrecognized region, I was just browsing through its history and was wondering why such a seemingly important fact was omitted from the document. I would just like to reiterate and say again how I thought it was notable but in the end seemed not to be so, forgive my mistake. 08OceanBeach SD (talk) 02:18, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - not used as a term, just as a description. Yaksar (let's chat) 00:11, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.