Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Intergang


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. ‑Scottywong | [express] || 05:04, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Intergang

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing General notability guideline and the more detailed Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar." It was deprodded by User:Andrew Davidson with no meaningful rationale (despite the fact that I explicitly asked for one in the PROD). All this has going for itself is a single sentence of 'publication history', other than than, it's 100% plot summary/fancruft. Le sigh. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  12:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  12:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  12:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete as per nom. William Harris (talk) 23:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - The only secondary sources are collections of in-universe details that fail to provide real world commentary on the topic, so they do not provide anything that can be described as significant coverage. Recounting plot details cannot allow this to meet WP:GNG. TTN (talk) 00:48, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - Aside from the topic clearly passing WP:NCOMIC and Intergang playing a prominent role in the Superman mythos, there are several reliable sources that discuss their creation and history. Some examples:

https://www.cbr.com/things-you-didnt-know-about-intergang/

https://screenrant.com/arrowverse-superman-villains-teases-references-not-use/

https://comicbook.com/dc/news/supergirl-season-3-episode-21-intergang-season-4-superman/

https://comicbook.com/dc/news/10-dc-characters-we-want-to-see-on-supergirl/#2

https://io9.gizmodo.com/supergirls-premiere-teased-a-major-darkseid-lackey-1829741238

https://screenrant.com/apokolips-justice-league-trivia-facts-darkseid-steppenwolf/

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/supergirl-adds-adrian-pasdar-carl-lumbly-more-for-season-3

https://comicsalliance.com/electric-bluegaloo-act-5-olsen-vs-intergang/

https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/365fourth/2010/11/08/day-38-inter-gang/

https://www.gamesradar.com/best-jack-kirby-art-comics-creations/

Additionally, this is a topic that's likely to be covered heavily in older print sources, if anyone has the capacity to check.  Dark knight  2149  03:45, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep based on sources above. Also agree about print sources; anything related to Jack Kirby is going to have information out there. Rhino131 (talk) 12:09, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep due to availability of significant coverage in numerous secondary sources easily found on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar concerning this notable topic. --Moscowdreams (talk) 15:47, 10 October 2020 (UTC)  Blocked sock account
 * Delete (Undecided; !Vote on hold; require more study; I'll try to get back here shortly) - Excuse me, but which of the links above are NOT plot summaries & mentions in passing? -  GizzyCatBella  🍁  04:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For starters, none of them are passing mentions. As for the first half of your question, quite a bit of it is non-plot summary (not that there's anything wrong with reliable sources also covering plot information to begin with). For instance, the CBR source has entire paragraphs of non-plot information, some examples being:
 * The Screen Rant source discusses how the Arrowverse layed the groundwork for the Intergang before they were eventually introduced directly. The Comicbook.com sources discuss Intergang in detail, as well as their history of appearing on Supergirl. Io9 discusses from a real world perspective:
 * As does Screen Rant:
 * And Syfy:
 * The entire Jack Kirby Museum article discusses Intergang from a real world perspective and their role in his Fourth World saga. As does GamesRadar:
 * Plus, there's the aforementioned print sources that others have been able to verify above. To wrap - Intergang is both a major Jack Kirby creation and a staple of Superman and Fourth World lore. A better question would be why you assumed that they were all passing mentions and exclusively plot summary without looking through them.  Dark knight  2149  05:35, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If those are the best sources, well - all I see are, as GCB noted above, mentions in passing - either about who the author of this fictional element is, or in which works it appeared it. Where's the analysis, where is the significance, where's the impact? Not everything that Kirby touched is automatically notable, and WP:NOTINHERITED is worth to recall. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:03, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * @User:Darkknight2149 - Sorry for not responding earlier, but I'm occupied with other things. Thank you for the quotes. The first quote states which the authors of this concept are. The second mentions media it has appeared in. The third one seems to be a plot summary. The fourth again states who the author was, as does the fifth and the sixth. None of those sources seems to discuss this topic in-depth if we discount the plot summary elements. Just saying that this fictional organization was created by person X and made an appearance in media A and B does not seem enough to meet GNG, at least as I understand it. - GizzyCatBella  🍁  08:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply. I disagree with your assessment that it's mostly passing mentions. The coverage establishes Intergang as a recurring staple of the Superman mythos (see the first quoted paragraph), goes over a real world history of Intergang's media appearances, and discusses their creation and real world development. The sources go into plot detail as well, but that is to be expected from any fictional element. "Significant coverage" also refers to the amount of detailed coverage received from reliable sources. There is no policy implication that fictional elements need to have a huge real world effect to be considered notable. That's not what "significant" in "Significant coverage" means.  Dark knight  2149  05:42, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The entire Jack Kirby Museum article discusses Intergang from a real world perspective and their role in his Fourth World saga. As does GamesRadar:
 * Plus, there's the aforementioned print sources that others have been able to verify above. To wrap - Intergang is both a major Jack Kirby creation and a staple of Superman and Fourth World lore. A better question would be why you assumed that they were all passing mentions and exclusively plot summary without looking through them.  Dark knight  2149  05:35, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If those are the best sources, well - all I see are, as GCB noted above, mentions in passing - either about who the author of this fictional element is, or in which works it appeared it. Where's the analysis, where is the significance, where's the impact? Not everything that Kirby touched is automatically notable, and WP:NOTINHERITED is worth to recall. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:03, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * @User:Darkknight2149 - Sorry for not responding earlier, but I'm occupied with other things. Thank you for the quotes. The first quote states which the authors of this concept are. The second mentions media it has appeared in. The third one seems to be a plot summary. The fourth again states who the author was, as does the fifth and the sixth. None of those sources seems to discuss this topic in-depth if we discount the plot summary elements. Just saying that this fictional organization was created by person X and made an appearance in media A and B does not seem enough to meet GNG, at least as I understand it. - GizzyCatBella  🍁  08:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply. I disagree with your assessment that it's mostly passing mentions. The coverage establishes Intergang as a recurring staple of the Superman mythos (see the first quoted paragraph), goes over a real world history of Intergang's media appearances, and discusses their creation and real world development. The sources go into plot detail as well, but that is to be expected from any fictional element. "Significant coverage" also refers to the amount of detailed coverage received from reliable sources. There is no policy implication that fictional elements need to have a huge real world effect to be considered notable. That's not what "significant" in "Significant coverage" means.  Dark knight  2149  05:42, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply. I disagree with your assessment that it's mostly passing mentions. The coverage establishes Intergang as a recurring staple of the Superman mythos (see the first quoted paragraph), goes over a real world history of Intergang's media appearances, and discusses their creation and real world development. The sources go into plot detail as well, but that is to be expected from any fictional element. "Significant coverage" also refers to the amount of detailed coverage received from reliable sources. There is no policy implication that fictional elements need to have a huge real world effect to be considered notable. That's not what "significant" in "Significant coverage" means.  Dark knight  2149  05:42, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep - Let this page stay. They are a big crime organization in DC Comics and some of the members redirect to this article. I also support the other keeps on this page like the sources provided by . --Rtkat3 (talk) 20:21, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   12:27, 17 October 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - per my prior comments - GizzyCatBella  🍁  13:23, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 00:27, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Yet another "uncontroversial" deletion proposal, eh? The nomination's claims are false as the topic is quite notable, being covered in detail in numerous sources.  Applicable policies include WP:NEXIST and WP:ATD which states that "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page." Andrew🐉(talk) 10:58, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per identified sources. — Toughpigs (talk) 02:54, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep A number of sources on the topic were found, so it's good that this was not simply deleted after a PROD. Also fullfills WP:NCOMIC. Daranios (talk) 15:58, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per all of the above. Artw (talk) 08:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. In large parts, violates MOS:REALWORLD and is an accumulation of in-universe trivia. While it is conceivable, based on the sources quoted above, that a sort-of-MOS-compliant stub could be written about this topic, there is little likelihood that someone will do this, and it's questionable whether they should. All but the most important elements of fictional settings are better covered, in appropriate context, in articles about the respective individual works or creators, to prevent their cancerous growth into unholy excrescences of fancruft.  Sandstein   12:20, 3 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.