Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Christian Church


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No consensus for a particular action has emerged from this discussion. Matters regarding the article can continue to be discussed on its talk page, which has received a great deal of commentary. North America1000 01:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

International Christian Church

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Several editors have expressed concern in this ANI thread that the article at present is based exclusively on primary sources, either published by the church or its affiliates or written by members. There seems to be a growing number of editors who believe such primary sources are the only sources available to use in the article. Since GNG requires that a topic be covered sufficiently in reliable, independent sources, this seems like that would the article a fair candidate for deletion, so I'm nominating it. (I'm gonna say this up front because I'm almost certain someone will !vote "keep" based on this non-reason if I don't: please note that interviews and press releases, even when they are covered by external as interviews and press releases, are still primary sources.) Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 23:00, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete/Merge I'm one of the people who commented on this topic at ANI. There are a lot of the church's own publications; and some publications by groups opposed to the church, but I have been unable to find neutral/secondary coverage. As a church with 5000 members that is a schism of a (still modestly sized) church, I don't feel it's inherently notable either. A merge to International Churches of Christ may be acceptable if the content issues can be solved. Power~enwiki (talk) 00:01, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 01:20, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 01:20, 13 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete I support deletion Qewr4231 (talk) 01:54, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * TNT delete. Denominations of this size virtually always qualify under GNG, and the only way I'll believe that this one doesn't is if you go through a detailed (and solid) explanation of your search for print sources and e-sources without finding them.  However, the current content really isn't an encyclopedia article — a proper article would have virtually none of the self-sourced information appearing here, and it definitely wouldn't have the mix of low-level promotion and low-level criticism of the subject.  We'd have to remove everything here in the process of writing a proper article, so we might as well make it a red link and encourage the writing of a totally new article.  Nyttend (talk) 03:59, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - the article does have a good many references, even if a lot of them are blogs. Vorbee (talk) 11:03, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete/merge: agree with and nom. Bondegezou (talk) 12:50, 13 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep and update* The International Christian Church has 43/43 primary citations. The church founding members came from, The International Churches of Christ has a similar issue.  ~81/87 are primary. Down the road when the Icc presumably reaches Icoc size, then what? Just a question to consider. I don't see a MERGE as reasonable.  Their doctrine is mutually exclusive in nature so if this occured, that differentiation would HAVE to be made or there would be a potential riot with all the SPAs that would form. The 4 content issues are noted in the talk page fyi.  I'd like to add, the [Kip McKean] page should also be monitored better. "Presumed accuracy" with monitoring of the hate blogs as citations is my thought. Coachbricewilliams28 (talk) 19:14, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - A search of 'MERCYworldwide" generated 28K Google responses and revealed a network of churches indicating that this is a significant Protestant denomination. I feel we need to treat these things like we do political parties: keep them all because this is information that our readers should have a reasonable expectation of being covered in a comprehensive encyclopedia. Yes, this is primary-source-based, but it is also of presumed accuracy. We need to tread very carefully with deletion, in my opinion. Carrite (talk) 14:19, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep, but prune -- This is about a denomination, not a single local church, so that on normal outcomes, we would have an article. I agree it is a bad article and with far too much non-RS sources.  Others want to merge it, but Where?  If this were about a local church we could merge to denomination, but I do not see how there can be a merge target here!  Merging back to the denomination from which it split would certainly not be right.  Most of the "see also" section is no doubt inspired by a claim to be an authentic reflection of the early church, which amounts to OR.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:50, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep and prune - The merge option suggested by some is impractical, this is a separate denomination, which group are you going to merge it into? It is notable, having a notable founder, Thomas McKean (who has his own Wikipage), and is spread out across a number of countries worldwide. My suggestion would be to limit @Qewr4231 (an ex-member of McKeans church) and @Coachbricewilliams (a current member of McKeans church) from editing it and hopefully the quality can improve from there. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 07:16, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:46, 19 September 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 02:23, 27 September 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Optakeover (U)(T)(C) 04:48, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete and rewrite. New article should read as follows -"The ICC is a xtian sect with 5,500 members worldwide." -Roxy the dog. bark 09:59, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep This article is about a denomination not  a local church  and has 43 citations a rewrite is needed which can done through normal editing.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:43, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.