Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Society of Genetic Genealogy


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedy keep. The nominator didn't provide a rationale for deletion, other than calling the site A lovely piece of financially-rewarding spam, however, a look at the article doesn't show any spam or promotional material. Further, each of the commenting editors have specifically stated that they do not see any link on the website that is requesting funds from the visitor (I also failed to see such a page). I see no problem in a renomination if you're able to provide a valid deletion rationale. (non-admin closure)  D u s t i *poke* 05:07, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

International Society of Genetic Genealogy

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the ISOGG website invites one to provide a donation before any information is provided; the ISOGG wiki may well be wonderful except every single page invites one to contribute a non-trivial sum to access information (typically $US950). A lovely piece of financially-rewarding spam if one can get away with it, but I feel time to pull this one up, pronto. Crusoe8181 (talk) 11:13, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I am blind, or perhaps we are not looking at the same website. Please provide a link to such an invitation (and quote the part in question). How can you help ISOGG? explains how members can support ISOGG but it does not mention any financial donations. Helen (talk) 11:39, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Participation in the Walk Through the Y programme run by Family Tree DNA, which includes genetic sequencing, costs $950 but it is not a service offered by ISOGG which is not affiliated with any registered, trademarked, and/or copyrighted names of companies, websites and organization. Helen (talk) 11:44, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. Assuming I am supposed to take this ridiculous deletion discussion seriously. Helen (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I did not have to pay any money to join ISOGG nor pay any annual fee. Someone is trolling. Jlick (talk) 11:53, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. Nominator appears to have misunderstood the website.  Nominator should preferably also refrain from removing links to the ISOGG tree, eg diff.  ("Non-scientific speculation" ???)  Jheald (talk) 11:58, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't believe we should expose our readership to invitations to email a particular address before any information whatsoever is given, as the link above solicits. If it looks like a..., it probably is a ... Crusoe8181 (talk) 12:05, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Please explain exactly what you are talking about with links etc. Vague unsubstantiated allegations are not helpful. Helen (talk) 12:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * the link you provided to how you can help ISOGG above - I will certainly not follow one of those links and we have a responsibility to protect our more gullible readership from so doing Crusoe8181 (talk) 12:14, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, that link does not mention any financial donations. It includes email links for certain specific queries, but so do most websites. Your nomination appears to be unfounded. Helen (talk) 12:31, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It only includes email links- no information is otherwise provided about anything else whatsoever- you click on one of those links, if you dare, or you are closely-connected, but there is no way I will just as I will not click on the masses of scam links I receive by email each day Crusoe8181 (talk) 12:38, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There is plenty of free online information. What browser are you using? Can you see the black and white menu on the left of the home page? (Home/Resources/For Newbies/For Admins/Famous DNA/YSNP Tree/Success Stories/Speakers List/Meetings) In the What's New box on the right there is also a link to the Wiki among other things. Helen (talk) 12:55, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There is NO request for money and PLENTY of FREE information. Your nomination is unfounded. Helen (talk) 12:56, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The ISOGG website is built using frames for the header and menu, which means that individual pages within the site currently do not display those when linking directly to an internal page, such as the Help page that Helen mentioned. If you go to the ISOGG homepage, you can see the full website, menus and all.  Perhaps ISOGG is "guilty" (and I use that term so very loosely) of an outdated website structure, but it most certainly is not a scam, spam, or any of the other ridiculous things that the complainant has suggested.  Efweb (talk) 17:02, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. This proposal seems entirely illogical, and not based on any normal reason for proposing a deletion. Even if ISOGG's website was entirely commercially oriented, that would not be a valid reason for not having an article about ISOGG. We have lots of articles about companies, and we very often link to commercial webpages. But anyway, if we are trying to protect internet-ignorant readers from dangerous adverts, we can delete links, but not whole articles. --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 13:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep. I think the nominator's browser must have been hijacked by malware. The spam links he describes do not exist. The nomination is not valid. Dahliarose (talk) 13:14, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:02, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. There is not and never has been a request for money on any ISOGG pages. I wonder whether this Crusoe8181 has really experienced that, or is just an anti-ISOGG troll looking for a way to erase the organization from Wikipedia.Iris-J2 (talk) 14:58, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep. I recommend speedy keep based on Wikipedia policies. The delete request is vexatious and the nomination is so erroneous that it indicates the nominator has not even read the article in question. Truly, the delete request has no basis in reality. After reviewing the site, I was unable to find a single page that asked explicitly for money. Let me quote from the Join ISOGG page: "No membership dues or fees - ISOGG is FREE!" I understand it to be a volunteer organization that provides assistance to individuals who wish to understand how genetic testing can help them learn more about genealogy. Due to the organization's work being referenced in major newspapers and academic journals, it meets the primary criteria of notability for an organization. Perhaps the original user could point us to the exact URLs that ask for money. The only reference to $950 is a single entry in the ISOGG Wiki that contains a neutral discussion of a commercial product offered by an unaffiliated corporation (the page Helen referenced above). The dollar amount $950 does not appear on any other page according to the Google.com cache of the website. Paul K. Graham (talk) 16:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep. This nomination is based on fraudulent premises. Nowhere on the ISOGG wiki does it ask for money—$950 or any lesser amount. In fact, both ISOGG's wiki and homepage are explicit that "There are NO dues or fees to join." The nominator seems to have some kind of personal animus toward genetic genealogy in general and ISOGG in particular. For a history, see Crusoe8181's ad hominem attacks on the archived talk page when they nominated List of haplogroups of notable people for deletion, which by the way the consensus was keep. Nathanm mn (talk) 20:04, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep. Beyond what was said above, if you go to the organization's about page, you see:

THERE ARE NO MEMBERSHIP DUES -

THERE ARE NO DONATIONS ACCEPTED -

YOUR MONEY IS NOT WANTED BY US SO GO

SPEND IT ON A DNA TEST Disclaimer: I've been a member for several months and have used the website for years, so you might find me less than objective. But I have never been asked for any money, nor have I even been exhorted to volunteer. Submitter seems to be trolling. Markzero (talk) 04:30, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.