Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Trotskyist Committee for the Political Regeneration of the Fourth International


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge/redirect to Trotskyist International Liaison Committee. Content can be merged from article history.  Jujutacular  talk 12:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

International Trotskyist Committee for the Political Regeneration of the Fourth International

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No evidence of notability. Superheroes Fighting (talk) 03:10, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions.  —Mia-etol (talk) 10:12, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  —Mia-etol (talk) 10:12, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Keep - Since this is one of a series of articles of a mass deletion effort, I'm going to state my case once and will copy-paste it below — it holds for one and all. This is an encyclopedia. Certain things are considered automatically encyclopedia-worthy at Wikipedia: degree-granting universities, secondary schools, numbered roads, towns, species of plants and animals, and so on and so forth. In my earnest belief, political parties and their youth sections passing the standard of WP:Verifiability should automatically meet the standard of encyclopedia-worthiness, without regard to size or ideology. These are the subject of serious scholarship. The Hoover Institution, closely linked to Stanford University, in 1991 published the 25th annual edition of its Yearbook of International Communist Affairs, recording the history and activities of left wing parties like this. The scholar Robert J. Alexander authored an 1100 page volume called International Trotskyism, 1929-1985: A Documented Analysis of the Movement, published by Duke University Press and held by something like 180 libraries worldwide. There have been monographs written on Trotskyism in America (Constance Myers, The Prophet's Army: Trotskyists in America, 1928-1941, Greenwood Press, 1977; Breitman, LeBlanc, and Wald, Trotskyism in the United States: Historical Essays and Reconsiderations, Humanities Press, 1996) and Trotskyism in the UK (John Callaghan, British Trotskyism: Theory and Practice, Basil Blackwell, 1984). Yes, little sects such as this are tiny; no, you're not going to find stories on them in the New York Times. But they are the subject of scholarly inquiry and deserve notability per se on that basis, just like insects and professional football players are instantly notable if their existence is verified. There is no point to this mass deletion effort. It will annihilate information to no good purpose — serious information that BELONGS in a comprehensive encyclopedia. It's time to Ignore All Rules to defend the quality of the encyclopedia and further, to amend the inadequate current notability guidelines for such organizations. And no, I'm not a Trotskyist and I don't play one on TV, if there were a similar series of attacks on right wing fringe parties I'd say the same thing. Carrite (talk) 17:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * An article should be kept if what it is about is notable, deleted otherwise. It would be silly to keep an article about a group that genuinely isn't notable simply because articles about other groups that might possibly be notable were nominated for deletion at the same time. Further comment on Carrite's remark is hardly required. Superheroes Fighting (talk) 19:51, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * * Comment - Per Superheroes Fighting's simplistic take that "an article should be kept if what it is about is notable, deleted otherwise," I offer the following... We are discussing application of the General Notability Guideline as it relates to organizational histories. Here is what Wikipedia says about Policies and guidelines: "Wikipedia policies and guidelines are developed by the community to describe best practice, clarify principles, resolve conflicts, and otherwise further our goal of creating a free, reliable encyclopedia... Although Wikipedia does not employ hard-and-fast rules, Wikipedia policy and guideline pages describe its principles and best-known practices. Policies explain and describe standards that all users should normally follow, while guidelines are meant to outline best practices for following those standards in specific contexts. Policies and guidelines should always be applied using reason and common sense." This effort to annihilate 20 articles that SHOULD be in an encyclopedia by the rigid and draconian application of ill-fitting GUIDELINES violates common sense. "Ignore All Rules" means nothing more or less than "Use Common Sense to build and improve the encyclopedia." Since this was a copy-and-paste mass challenge, this message will be likewise copied-and-pasted where applicable. Carrite (talk) 23:21, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - the people trying to keep these pages aren't even looking at them, they just cut and paste the same pro forma screed that they should be kept to every article. I can not find a book or article that mentions this group.  Everything points back to Wikipedia, except a few pages on the web that list hundreds of political parties without much information on them, this being one of them.  The only exception is a Myspace page which has three articles written by this committee - back in the 1980s.  No one else finds these people (by people I mean the three or four people, if that, who comprise this "international" committee) notable, and neither should Wikipedia. Adelson Velsky Landis (talk) 08:59, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge and redirect to Trotskyist International Liaison Committee - not really notable, but verifiable and mentioned in that article as its successor. This work (called a directory, but far more details than that term suggests) mentions it, and this confirms its existence, while pointing out that the British section was minuscule. Warofdreams talk 13:20, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - These articles are part of a series of articles about the various trends within Trotskyism - a political tradition of some relevance with significant presence in a large number of countries,e.g. 5 people with roots in various threads of the tradition (at least one of them fairly obscure) were recently elected to the Irish parliament (the Dáil) - blanket elimination of the more obscure smaller organisations (or sometimes only apparently obscure because they aren't represented in English-speaking countries) will seriously distort Wikipedia's coverage of this political tradition. We should be careful not to take decisions based on our political opinions or prejudices or to allow ourselves to be seen to be yoked into a political campaign (even if this may not be deliberate on the part of the proposer). While there may be a case for consolidation of some of the articles into longer more inclusive ones and some of the articles may require more referencing - if necessary in other languages - I think it would be a serious error to delete any of these articles. I'm adding this opinion to all the organizations proposed for deletion. Mia-etol (talk) 18:32, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep  I concur with Carrite--historical information of this sort is encyclopedic. Our scope is broad enough to record minor parties. The'yre relatively difficult to judge for notability, without using what are in some cases very difficult to find sources. The reader is best served if they are covered comprehensively, not selectively. just a small religious movements, and I think our general policy has been to be inclusive of those that have a real existence. The guiding policies are WP:V and NOT PAPER   DGG ( talk ) 21:08, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete per failure to satisfy the applicable notability guideline, WP:ORG. There is no guideline providing "Inherent notability for tiny splinter political parties lacking multiple reliable and independent references with significant coverage." Verifying its existence via a directory listing is inadequate. No sources cited to satisfy the guideline. Edison (talk) 02:34, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - Article does not meet general notability criteria.--יום יפה (talk) 14:59, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect per Warofdreams, merge only verifiable content. Sourced as it is only to self-published websites, one of which does not work, the subject fails WP:GNG and WP:ORG.  Sandstein   06:19, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep or Merge per Warofdreams, Carrite, and DGG. If paper or online sources can be found, sure, why not keep it?  However, the article notes that it "was essentially the continuation of the earlier Trotskyist International Liaison Committee...."  I'm not clear as to whether this was an important part of the Trotskyite movement.  It certainly merits inclusion somewhere in WP. Bearian (talk) 21:11, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.