Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Inu-Yupiaq


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. ‑Scottywong | yak _ 15:18, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Inu-Yupiaq

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Though the article is a bit unclear, this is a student dance group at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. (As far as I can tell, this is not an established dance style. The word is a portmanteau of Iñupiaq and Yupik, two major Alaska Native groups that each have their own dance styles.) I can't find any significant coverage of the student group. Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:15, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose: The article is not just about the student group, and while it clearly needs help and work, it also clearly passes the WP:GNG for a Native American cultural concept.  Alaskanative.net states that "Song duels" were a traditional part of the cultures of the  Inupiaq and the St. Lawrence Island Yupik People (see here and just because the cultural preservation activity appears to be promoted at a University does not mean it is to be rejected. I also found this book, which indicates that indigenous song and dance is part of the Inupiaq culture. (see p. 127)   Montanabw (talk)  17:21, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Additionally, the above google link gave over 3000 hits, notably these: news coverage, About page, explains they do "Eskimo motion dancing", this page shows the student group, UAF search shows it exists, and so on.  Hope this helps.   Montanabw (talk)  17:45, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * "Song duels" (probably referring to Inuit throat singing) are something completely different from this dance group. Note: the content on "song duels" now in the article was added by Montanabw. This is a specialized skill/tradition and there is nothing to indicate that any of the members of Inu-Yupiaq have ever participated in song duels/throat singing. This is a fusion group that combines a variety of notable dance forms from various Alaska Native groups (on which we should but apparently do not yet have articles). We should have Inupiaq dance, Yupik dance, etc. (perhaps even Alaska Native dance if a reasonable summary of the various groups' traditions can be constructed), but not this. This fusion group itself is non-notable - search for "Inu-Yupiaq" and you get basically nothing besides some stuff from the university. Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:31, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Note Alaska Native storytelling. Public performances of dance groups represent the only opportunity for many people who neither live in nor have visited a village to experience storytelling traditions RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  13:09, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Appears to be the only article on Alaska Native dancing in WP, I see room to improve the article, but not to delete it. How about you take my source material and add to the article to build it into something decent?   Montanabw (talk)  17:46, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything here worth preserving. The title is the name of one specific college dance group. ("Inu-Yupiaq" is an invented word.)  As for sources on that specific group, there are none from outside the college.  Tons of non-notable student groups get mentioned in college papers periodically. To the extent the article strays from the topic of "Inu-Yupiaq" and discusses Native song/dance generally, that content is confusing, unsourced (apart from one point about song duels that belongs in Inuit throat singing), and combines a variety of Alaska Native traditions in a way that doesn't make much sense.  Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:02, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment While I agree that off-campus sources are needed, i.e. third-party (bearing in mind that a university newspaper is a third party to the group, likewise any publication of the university itself), it's not like individual dance groups with individual dance styles don't have a presence on Wikipedia, nor is there any reason to forbid that e.g. La La La Human Steps. And this The content on native dance/singing generally is confusing, unsourced (apart from one point about song duels that belongs in Inuit throat singing), and combines a variety of Alaska Native traditions in a way that doesn't make much sense." doesn't call for deletion, it calls for making sense, if possible, about what is there. "Tons of non-notable student groups get mentioned in college papers periodically" is also not clear and confusing, and prejudges whether they are notable or not; have you looked up any Alaska publications that might mention them, or is this just a IDONTLIKEIT plaint?  University newspapers are incestuous, yes, but they are still third-party publications. And who cares if the name is a "portmanteau" (a word overused in wikipedia for an amalgam or combination)?  That has zip to do with anything.Skookum1 (talk) 18:25, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * See WP:CLUB for the need for something beyond student papers. I am from Alaska, and any group that is important would be discussed in the Anchorage Daily News, the paper of record for the state.  The Fairbanks News-Miner would also cover things of local importance in Fairbanks.  Neither paper has ever discussed the group in any detail. (The group has been listed fewer than 10 times in local event listings, with no further detail.)  Given that article is titled after a specific dance group, it does not make sense to clean up the general content about Alaska Native dance on this particular page.  It would be essentially the same as Wikipedia locating its general article about ballroom dance under the title Crimson Tide Ballroom Dancers (of the University of Alabama, to pick a totally arbitrary example). I make the portmanteau point for people unfamiliar with Alaska Native groups, who might mistakenly think that Inu-Yupiaq is a Native people. (It is not.) Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:35, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: See for Alaskan Eskimo songs and dances: Thomas F. Johnston (1976), The Eskimo Songs of Northwestern Alaska. Arctic 29(1):7-19 {The name "Eskimo" in this paper is for Inupiaq} --Kmoksy (talk) 20:19, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Since you brought up Tom Johnston, another problem with coverage of the University of Alaska: most existing coverage of "notable faculty" reads like thinly veiled self-promotion of current or recent faculty, in the process missing the boat on reflecting what's really notable. Dr. Johnston was quite an interesting person.  Unfortunately, his murder at the hands of his housemate in 1994 probably attracted more attention than anything he accomplished during his life. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  13:09, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Retitle/Rewrite – First off, coverage of the University of Alaska System and that which falls under its umbrella is an unfocused mess in general, ripe for spam and POV forking. Second, this particular group is not that terribly notable.  Native dancing as a whole is most certainly notable.  Many dance groups are possibly notable in and of themselves, but it's hard to say whether you could get much more than a series of copycat permastubs out of the deal should you choose to go that route.  If you're looking for notability in the context of Native dancing at UAF, there is the Festival of Native Arts, held annually in late February/early March for several decades, which regularly attracts dance groups (not to mention crafts vendors) from around the state.  From my perspective as a Fairbanks-area resident who is involved with Native people and issues on an almost daily basis, the Barrow and Anaktuvuk Pass groups travel around regularly, groups from the western coast come here for most big events (and presumably travel to Anchorage more often), plus there are a number of Athabaskan dance groups.  Athabaskan dances share similar traits with Inupiaq and Yupik dances, but have their own variations;  Kaltag Stickdance, anyone? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  20:34, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: The Eskimo dancers (with qaspeq) in the file (Alaskan dancers.jpg) Alaskan dancers.jpg]] are "common" dancers or Inu-Yupiaq dancers? --Kmoksy (talk) 20:39, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's any way to know what dance troupe is depicted in that file without further information. Inu-Yupiaq appears to perform in similar clothing, but so do many other Native dance groups in the state. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:45, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The better known and organized dance groups tend to dress uniformly in performance. For instance, the Barrow group distinguishes itself by virtue of the males wearing crisp white dress shirts during performances.  There are people involved with Inu-Yupiaq who are full-time residents of Fairbanks, mostly UAF staffers and former students.  However, most students are back home (or working summer jobs) during the majority of the tourist season. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  13:09, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The tr:Qaspeq (Yupik) or Atikłuk (Inupiaq) is typical dance cloth of Alaskan Eskimo peoples. --Kmoksy (talk) 20:52, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I just created the article Kuspuk -- we should have had this article long ago! Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:30, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. This page is "short" but "wonderful" for Alaskan Eskimo culture. --Kmoksy (talk) 08:23, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Alaska-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:06, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:06, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:06, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: Related page is Pamyua (literally: "it's tail" in Central Alaskan Yup'ik language from pamyuq "tail of animal or kayak; chorus of song; upper stern-piece of kayak") is a Yupik musical group from Anchorage. Also annual Cama-i Dance Festival (my favorite is Chevak Dancers, because are endangered Cup’ik) --Kmoksy (talk) 07:30, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 10:06, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, slakr  \ talk / 03:57, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Note &mdash; At its core, note that the nomination is for the student group, and the policy and guideline-based rationales presented are effectively that the group has a lack of numerous, substantial, reliable secondary sources for verifying significant coverage as a claim to notability of that group. The dance/art form is incidental to the subject of the article, which, again, is the student group. -- slakr \ talk / 04:02, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I stand by my vote. Generalized coverage of the overlying topics covered in the article is sorely lacking, rendering it at best a POV fork and at worst not entirely subtle advertising/promotion for the student group, with just enough off-topic material thrown in to make it appear legitimate to the untrained eye.  I tend to be turned off when I read posts containing a fondness for quoting policy and guidelines not dissimilar to a preacher quoting the Bible.  WP:WTF-EVER et. al. isn't going to read Wikipedia content and conclude that it lacks credibility, but real people out in the real world will do exactly that.  IF you are insisting that I treat this nomination as though it exists in a vacuum, then and only then will I say Delete.  Please feel free to clarify whether that was your intention. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  11:05, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I also stand by my keep vote. The article was expanded and sourced; Native People have a harder time putting out material in sources that pass wikipedia muster.   Montanabw (talk)  15:47, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.