Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ion Stoica (aviator)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Gheorghe Bănciulescu--Ymblanter (talk) 06:42, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Ion Stoica (aviator)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

The man is, at best, a local hero, but there's nothing indicating notability as normally defined. Our sources are more than thin: passing mention in what appears to be a self-published newspaper (at any rate, an extremely local and small one); passing mention in an article about August Treboniu Laurian, again in a no-name newspaper; and an official press release (never a good source for history articles) not about Stoica, but about his pilot, who may be marginally notable.

So, in sum: great fellow, tragic end, etc., just not quite encyclopedia material. - Biruitorul Talk 14:21, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Is there an issue with Gheorghe Bănciulescu? Are their effort not worth mentioning? Is the Paris - Bucharest route [of 1926] not a brave attempt? The fact that one of them died and the other had his legs amputated; is that not worth for Wikipedia? If not Ion Stoica, at least the event should have a Wikipedia page. In general, an individual is presumed to be notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple verifiable independent, reliable sources. it's the only reasonable statement for deleting the article.--TudorTulok (talk) 19:38, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * And we have two separate unique sources in Romanian about both of them: Source 1 Source 2. How many unique sources do we need? TudorTulok (talk) 19:44, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, the content of Ion Stoica (aviator) will be moved to the English translation of ro:Fofeldea, Sibiu, that's fine. Please let me know before you remove the article. TudorTulok (talk) 19:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Worth checking that the event (September 1926) where Ion Stoica died was just a contest from "Cupa Bibescu": Gheorghe Bănciulescu and ro:Romeo Popescu were flying a month before (August 1926) on the same route. I believe Stoica and Bănciulescu were trying to break a speed record on the same route. Anyway, this things are interesting, and without the proper links some details will fade into the obscurity of time.TudorTulok (talk) 20:02, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The bottom line is that an individual is considered notable if he meets WP:BASIC: "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources". Thus far, no source you have presented achieves that. We either have passing mention, or the sources themselves are not particularly quotable.
 * I would add, too, WP:CONTEXTMATTERS: "the reliability of a source depends on context". We are dealing with someone who died in 1926, in other words, a historical figure. The ideal sources for such an individual are a) newspapers of the day - see here for those - and b) historical publications, both books and articles. Not press releases or news briefs from the past few years. If you want to demonstrate notability (as defined by policy), you still have a long way to go. - Biruitorul Talk 23:13, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:52, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:53, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:53, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. How about Istoria Aviaţiei Române, a book by Nicolae Balotescu, published in 1984? Razvan Socol (talk) 08:49, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear about the extent of said book's coverage of the subject: "In 1926, Captain Gheorghe Bănciulescu, with mechanic Ion Stoica on board, attempted to fly a Potez-25 plane without a stopover from Bucharest to Paris. However, the plane hit the Hirburn hill in Raymarov, Czechoslovakia due to thick fog. Stoica died as a result of this accident, while Captain Bănciulescu fractured both legs, which were amputated following surgery."
 * That isn't in-depth coverage; it's passing mention in a 750-page volume. At best, Stoica deserves mention in the article on Bănciulescu. But if this is the best we can come up with, then no, a standalone article simply is not justified. - Biruitorul Talk 14:07, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * But we have three separate sources now. Right? TudorTulok (talk) 18:20, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * First, it depends on what you define as a source. For instance, like I've said, a government press release is not the best source for attesting the notability of a historic figure. Second, nothing we have so far goes into any particular depth about the subject. Essentially everything about him deals with the Bănciulescu crash and discusses him in that context. This suggests that WP:BIO1E applies:
 * "When an individual is significant for his or her role in a single event, it may be unclear whether an article should be written about the individual, the event or both. In considering whether or not to create separate articles, the degree of significance of the event itself and the degree of significance of the individual's role within it should be considered."
 * Neither Stoica nor the crash are important enough to warrant separate articles, and we really should treat him as the sources do, namely as a brief mention in the article on Bănciulescu. - Biruitorul Talk 19:09, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Should Fofeldea (similarly to ro:Fofeldea) extend the section about him? TudorTulok (talk) 21:48, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep. Thanks Razvan Socol. This is the book I have it at home and writes about him. I didn't know I can source it from the Internet. TudorTulok (talk) 09:03, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete I cant see anything notable enough for a standalone article. MilborneOne (talk) 19:52, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Delete. The article lacks reliable sources, save for the MAE communique: the first reference seems to be a blog, the second one a glorified website. I wonder what the source for the birthdate is. Anyway, there isn't enough significant coverage for the GNC to be met. I think it's in compliance with due weight if the subject of this article is mentioned in Bănciulescu's article and maybe in Fofeldea, Sibiu.--Mihai (talk) 22:58, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep WP:BASIC met by two websites, discounting the blog. The article still needs to be rewritten with proper English grammar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paperpencils (talk • contribs) 12:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note to closing administrator - ever since I nominated this article for deletion, this user has had a vendetta against me: see here and here. His instant familiarity with Wikipedia procedures also suggests sockpuppetry, as well as the fact that he and another quasi single purpose account were the only ones who worked on said article. In short, this vote should probably be discounted. - Biruitorul Talk 14:19, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. The pilot in the speed record attempt, Gheorghe Bănciulescu, is notable; he was the mechanic. Clarityfiend (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge to Gheorghe Bănciulescu as suggested above. Sources (especially english) for Romanian aviators tend to be scant in comparison, but that does not mean these subjects should be completely ignored. ScrapIronIV (talk) 19:44, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge to Gheorghe Bănciulescu and only a short sentence on ro:Fofeldea, Sibiu with link back to Gheorghe Bănciulescu. Trivia: I am Ion Stoica's great-grandson. It was just my ambition to have an article with him. Compare him with me or here. TudorTulok (talk) 02:41, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.