Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Irama


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  Sandstein  17:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Irama

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Appears to be a non-notable concept. No significant coverage in reliable sources and it isn't even mentioned on the gamelan article. So proposing possible deletion or redirect/merge to gamelan article. JoshyDinda (talk) 21:22, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Indonesia-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 01:38, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 01:38, 29 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep per the myriad reliable sources found by Google Books. Just the first two of these sources demonstrate very clear notability, both being from university publishers and having many pages of coverage of the subject. Not being mentioned in the gamelan article is simply an indication that that article is incomplete, not that this one should be deleted. Phil Bridger (talk) 15:41, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:00, 5 December 2011 (UTC)




 * Keep - I have added five citations and two of the many books on the subject. Irama is a core concept in Gamelan (it is linked from many other WP articles on Gamelan), is defined in many books (and websites), and is a necessity for students and players to understand Gamelan music. The topic is certainly Notable. And we should not constantly be deleting good worthwhile articles of this nature. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:25, 5 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I have added a brief note in Gamelan itself, with link to Irama and a citation. But the concepts were already richly linked together via the other articles on Gamelan music. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:43, 5 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge If Irama is a core concept of Gamelan, considering the length of the article, it seems it could be easily incorporated as a main section of that article. Σ Α Π Φ (Sapph) Talk 17:03, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's core to the musicology of Gamelan, which in turn is one aspect of a complex subject - the culture, the repertoire and so on. Reasons why we should keep the article rather than attempting a merge:
 * Firstly, there is scope for more detail on Irama - we are not considering just the text now, but what it should be - in particular it would be helpful if it contained some tables or diagrams showing what it consists of in terms of beats (as in some of the referenced websites).
 * Secondly, why should we merge Irama, but not Gong ageng, Kendang, Kenong, Ladrang, Ompak, Gatra, ... etc etc? Why should all elements of a rich, complex subject be in one article? No, this is a Wiki, a hypertext, and it's convenient, accessible and correct to have a network of articles covering different aspects of a topic. Irama is a notable topic and deserves its own article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: (disclaimer: original author, sorry I was lazy about citations back in those days, thanks Chiswick Chap for adding some). I argue against a merge, because it is a core concept in Javanese gamelan, not all other forms (which the gamelan article provides an overview of). The best way to clarify the diverse structures (and instruments, etc.) that appear in the various kinds of gamelan is to have a rich hypertext organization that is available for appropriate links. We obviously do this with distinctive rhythmic techniques that appear in European music, instead of merging them into the most typical genre they appear in (see Category:Rhythm). To do otherwise with the well-documented tradition of Javanese gamelan reflects a bias. Also, another great possibility with hypertext would be a link to similar concepts that happen in other musical forms, like fangman jiahua in China or thaw in Thai music (see this mention of irama in a book about Chinese music). I realize we don't yet have articles on those, and maybe won't for a while (I don't have time to write them right now), but we should, and when we do, it will be nice to link directly to an article on irama instead of expecting people to dig it out of a section of a much larger article. Rigadoun (talk) 02:14, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.