Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iron Mask (band)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Userfy. Article will be moved to User:Dzimozz\drafts\Iron Mask (band) for further improvement with the suggestion that Dzimozz seek guidance from fellow experience editors and projects on the best ways to bring this article in line with WP standards.--Mike Cline (talk) 13:15, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Iron Mask (band)

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

With only a myspace and their official website as external links, I believe it fails WP:Notability (music)  LAA  Fan '' 19:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, you can check out their latest album at Yahoo. There are more than 42000 results of search for "Shadow Of The Red Baron". Besides, in Wikipedia there's an article about another Dushan Petrossi's project - "Magic Kingdom". Iron Mask is a more successful and popular project, so I think therefore there shuold be an article about it. Dushan Petrossi is considered as guitar hero #1 in Belgium, the belgian Yngwie Malmsteen. And in Iron MAsk there's of the greatest rock-singers of our epoch - Oliver Hartmann. Their latest album was highly estimated by many rock magazines, for example Burrn!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 19:49, 19 July 2010 (UTC) Dzimozz (talk) 20:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Their previous album "Hordes Of The Brave" was well-estimated too, in the same magazines. Besides, in "Iron Mask" we can find musicians, who performed in well-world-known bands and projects: Avantasia, Narnia, Joe Stump, Reign Of Terror, Edguy and so on - the articles about these bands can be found in Wikipedia. Iron Mask perfomed onstage with such monsters of rock as Soulfly, Aerismith, Primal Fear, Caracass and many others —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 19:54, 19 July 2010 (UTC)  Dzimozz (talk) 20:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC) And one more thing. Record labels Lion Music and Avalon\marquee are well-known, and there are articles 'bout 'em in Wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 20:07, 19 July 2010 (UTC)  Dzimozz (talk) 20:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Can I remove afd messeage? Is the isuue settled? Dzimozz (talk) 20:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC) I have already explained the issue to JamesBWatsonDzimozz (talk) 20:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I can add more than 50 external links about the band and their albums, if nessesary Dzimozz (talk) 20:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Plenty of coverage in webzines but I'm struggling to see any of those as what we would count as reliable sources. Allmusic has no coverage, but MusicMight does if you know what to search for: . This appears to be from a print magazine (or former print magazine). A few pointers to coverage in print magazines might sway it to a keep, but it needs more evidence of coverage in reliable sources.--Michig (talk) 20:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, I can provide more references - these are the reviews of thier album "Hordes Of The Brave"

Hope, this will be enough. Their disks can be bought at Amazon, the record labels Lion Music and Avalon/Marquee are well-known. And one more thing. I've just searched for "iron mask" "shadow of the red baron" in Google - the number of results is about 1 700 000 ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 20:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC) Dzimozz (talk) 20:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC) Some sites are very popular, for example russian rock-metal site #1 darkside.ruDzimozz (talk) 20:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * We need direct links to the articles, bro. Not the host sites.  Also note that fan sites are not going to make the grade - and the pages at angelfire alone won't work. Check those links on your talk page. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 21:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm going with a weak delete for now. There are plenty of reviews out there (Dzimozz shows links for this), but I'm not finding much more than that - and it doesn't quite make the grade on WP:MUSIC.  I say weak, however, because a Google search (yes, I know...) turns up multiple links that relate - though none of them make the grade on our reliable sources guidelines.  Some mini-reviews, album listings, torrent and download sites, but not much more than that.  I've gone ahead and explained my stance to user:Dzimozz on his talk page, and I'm hoping he can turn something up. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 21:02, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, as far as I understood, an encyclopedia can be regarded as reliavle source for Wiki? In this case, I've found the link for the The Encyclopedia of heavy metal Metallian:www.metallian.com/dushanpetrossisironmask.htm Sorry for my English, I'm from Belarus, this is not an english-speaking country (former Soviet Unin, you know:-)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 21:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC) Dzimozz (talk) 21:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Change vote to userfy. He's making an effort, but he's focusing his energy wrong - so I'm going to assume good faith in that he'll fix it.  The down shot is that it's not yet a viable article for Wikipedia, so keeping it is not the right thing - put it in background and userfication should do the trick.  Good luck. =)

And by the way, I think, my article meets the following criteria 1.5 WP:Notability (music): "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels" The Label is Lion Music. There's an article about this label in wikipedia.It was founded in 1989 as a production company for the composer  and artist Lars Eric Mattsson.Lion Music has also released several well received quality tribute albums to Jason Becker, Shawn Lane, Ritchie Blackmore, Jimi Hendrix, Uli Jon Roth and Gary Moore. Lion Music's current release schedule sees an average of 3 to 4 new albums each month. And ALL THREE albums of Iron Mask were released on this labelDzimozz (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

And one more criteria :"Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles.There is a musician - Oliver Hartmann, he has been member of several notable bands - Avantasia, At Vance, Edguy and so on. By the way, in the article about hartmann in Wikipedia there's mentioned that he participated on the album of Iron Mask "Hordes Of The Brave" (2005) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 21:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * There are two problems with the link to Lion Music. One, there's WP:WAX.  Please read that.  Two, at the risk of seeming like I'm throwing a straw man argument, that article has plenty of issues on its own, and may just come up here. I need better references! -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 21:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Dzimozz, noting your cite for WP:MUSIC 2.6 which notes "two or more" musicians, only one is listed as notable. -- Dennis The Tiger  (Rawr and stuff) 23:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Allright, Dennis! Hope, that I found RELIABLE source. Please check out this one: http://www.musicmight.com/artist/germany/hartmann and one more: http://www.musicmight.com/artist/belgium/brussels/magic+kingdom. And the following one: http://www.musicmight.com/artist/belgium/dushan+petrossi+27s+iron+mask Hope that Musicmight is a Reliable source.Dzimozz (talk) 04:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:14, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Those are brief bios. Historically, they don't tend to work out.  -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 14:19, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep I agree Its not a good article but they reviews and news coverage at bravewords magazine, Lords of metal, Metal Glory, Metal Express Radio...etc, plus they have discography. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 12:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

'I forgot to mention, that one of the world's best metal keybordists Richard Anderson did all the keybords waor on Iron Mask's second album Hordes of the brave. Therefore, we have here TWO notable musicians - Richard Andersson and Oliver Hartmann. There is another great guitarist, who contributed to Tron Mask's album - Lars Eric Mattsson'Dzimozz (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC) I tried to correct everything you've mentioned. Hope, now the article suits the requirements. Is there anything to change in order to remove these warning messages at the top of the article?Dzimozz (talk) 18:41, 20 July 2010 (UTC) I hope, now it's quite neutralDzimozz (talk) 20:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment, ok but the article is not encyclopedic and has seirous issues, I marked some of them, when you mention something you should provide reliable sources, if you dont, the article will be in danger of deletion any minute. I may even change my opinion if you dont edit it Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 13:23, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

At least, is it possible to remove the very first note 'bout the deletion of article (at the top of it). Got a question: is the issue about possible deletion settled or not?Dzimozz (talk) 20:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the heading at the top of the page cannot be removed until this AFD is done. The issue of deletion will be settled after a consensus is reached on this page. You can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AFD#How_to_discuss_an_AfD for more information.-- LAA Fan '' 23:40, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment you're doing good, I added the infobox for you, maybe add 1 reliable source, last.fm is not reliable. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 05:51, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I've made some changes and added the references, hope they are from RELIABLE sources. I do my best in order to make everything as it must be according to Wikipedia's rules. Hope, now the article suits these requirements. Got a question - why when i search for "iron mask band wikipedia" in YAHOO there are no references to the article, that I created in wikipedia? This is because the article is still nominated for deletion?Dzimozz (talk) 16:38, 21 July 2010 (UTC) Allright, I removed your note "Citation needed", and my 2nd reference and made single reference for this abstract. Hope, Rock Box is a reliable source. And Prog4you as well. At least, there are many links to these sites (i searched in google&yahoo).Dzimozz (talk) 17:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment you're doing good but self published sources are not reliable, you need to change ref 1 & 2, you should search reliable metal new sites like, blabbermouth or metal hammer...etc, it takes time till Google find it, also depends on the number of page visitors. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 17:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry - search in Google for "iron mask band wikipedia" works!))))))))))))Dzimozz (talk) 18:08, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

One more question - when i provide references, is it a must that reference shuould be complete, for example www.psychocydd.co.uk/details.php?id=9dbe2c5276e89b66efff96a6548389def548707b or I just can provide reference for the site - www.psychocydd.co.uk?Dzimozz (talk) 18:26, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The link must be complete.-- LAA Fan '' 19:56, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok, got it! Hope all my links are reliable and complete now)))Dzimozz (talk) 20:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 *  Weak Delete. As a band that has had albums commercially released I would like to find a reason for keeping this, but I don't see enough/any coverage in reliable sources to justify an article.--Michig (talk) 20:20, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This is getting ridiculous. Delete it and let its creator work on it in userspace if need be until it gets properly sourced, when it can be moved into userspace or deleted if it doesn't look like it's going to get properly sourced.--Michig (talk) 21:35, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, it seemed to me that Spada II ♪♫ is agree with my point that they HAVE ENOUGH COVERAGE in reliable sources - see his comment at the middle of the discussion. He said "they reviews and news coverage at bravewords magazine, Lords of metal, Metal Glory, Metal Express Radio...etc, plus they have discography." And I gave the references at THESE reliable sources.Dzimozz (talk) 20:40, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Spada II ♪♫ asked me just to provide one more reference - and I hope that I met this requirement.Dzimozz (talk) 20:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

And one more thing. The incredible and one of the best rock-metall drummers of all times Mike Terrana was a member of Iron Mask for a while   Dzimozz (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 21:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I noticed, that you've removed the abstracts about Iron Mask's 3d album Shadow Of The Red Baron and about their participation at Graspop Metal Meeting. Well, this 3d album is considered to be their best album, and at Graspop Iron Mask performed onstage alongside with Soulfly, Caracass and lot of other monsters of metal. Therefore, can I bring these abstracts back, cause they seem to be notable? Another question: Is it a must that I should keep YOUR references or I can provide my ones?Dzimozz (talk) 03:52, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I wonder, was anything wrong with the references that I provided last time - I just want to notice, that it seemed to me, that Spada II ♪♫ said, that these references are OK, and reference at Last.fm doesn't seem to be reliable. So, can I change your corrections and return to the very last version of the article? I'm not from english-speaking country, so probably I didn't cacth the idea, that Spada II ♪♫ wanted to express and deliver me with? Is anything wrong with the fact, that Dushan was influenced by Schenker and Moore?Iron mask even contributed to the tribute album "Give Us Moore" (Lion mysic) and performed Dary's hit Out In The FieldsDzimozz (talk) 04:02, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

One more thing - in 2005 they toured with canadian thrash veterams Anvil -. Can I add this fact? So, finally my qoestions are:
 * Can I bring back the abstracts about Shadow Of The Red Baron  and Graspop festival, that seem to be NOTABLE?
 * Can I add that Petrossi was influenced by Schenker and Moore, remove your link/reference and add my one, cause it seems to me, that article in Bravewords in not NEUTRAL.
 * Can I add the abstract and reference for Iron Mask's 2005 tour with Anvil?
 * Finally, can I bring back the references, that Spada II ♪♫ considered to be reliable? TNX for Star)))Dzimozz (talk) 04:39, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

As I understand, according to wikipedia's deletion policy I can change my article in order to make, that it meets wiki's requirements. But the question is, that my corrections can be removed by YOU once more and the article will be in form, as it is now? I try to make article full, neutral, reliable and notable, that's why I need my corrections back, if it's possible))))Dzimozz (talk) 05:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment last.fm and metal-archive are not reliable, as i said you should find sources like bravewords that I added, look in Blabbermouth, metal Hammer, rock hard. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 05:54, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Allright, but it wasn't me who made the references at Last.fm, there is someone else. I remember all your requirements, and I provided the links, that I hope are reliable, but someone cut the arctice and established other linksDzimozz (talk) 11:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, everyone! Tnx for stars! )))) I do my best to meet all the requirements, but it's nor simple (I've alreday told, that I live in non-english speakinf country - Belarus))))). I would ask you not to remove Roma Siadletsky from the list of band's members at the bottom of the group photo (at this foto he's second from the right). The prove that Roma is band memeber can be found for example here and i can give more than 50 links more. The point is that the guy, who created the official site of Iron Mask lives in USA and he forgot to mention Roma. While creating this article about the band, I act on behalf of Dushan himself and Roma, who was born in my country (Belarus). Awaiting for further recommendations, hope that one day the note about this article's deletion will be removed for the top of the page))). But what I know is that now in the world there are 6 more persons - LAA  Fan,  Dennis The Tiger , Spada II ♪♫, Michig,  Piano  tech , JamesBWatson - who know that there's such a wondeful band Iron MAsk))))) Hope, you'll like their last album "Shadow of the Red Baron"! CheersDzimozz (talk) 12:50, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, what else am I to add/remove/correct/improve in order to ask you to remove the notion that the article is being considered for deletion? Dzimozz (talk) 20:02, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment It stayes there for 7 days, then an administator comes and check the Afd disscution and makes decision. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 07:13, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I provided another reference, that I hope is reliable Tartarean Desire. The information about the site and its reliability can be found here Websiteindepthand here Websitetrafficspy There are references at this site in existing articles in wikipedia, that are not nominated for deletion- Korpiklaani, In Flames, Folk Metal, Gothic Metal. The same thing foe the reference at CdUniverse - in Wikipedia there's a reference at this site here - Jeff Healy and here The Doors. Hope this's quite reliable source. The information about its reliability can be founf here Trafficestimate and here Alexa.com Alexa Internet. Check out the criterias here WP:GOOGLE DzimOZZ 07:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dzimozz (talk • contribs) 07:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Tartarean Desire isn't a reliable source, and CDUniverse is a shop. Traffic stats don't make them more reliable.--Michig (talk) 08:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC) Traffic stats may prove that a site is reliable but they don't prove that that site is a reliable source. I would strongly recommend that you read and try to understand Reliable sources.--Michig (talk) 16:04, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok, but as I said, there are the references at these site in many wikipedia articles (that I've mentioned). Does it means, that for these articles they are reliable, and for Iron Mask's one no? For example, in the article about famous metal band In Flames there's references for Tartareandesire. The reference is nor removed, and the article 'bout In Flames is not nominated for deletion. The same thing concerns article about Jeff Healy - here there's reference at CdUniverse.com. These references are not disputed by the administration (there's) no such box at the top of these articles, and they are not nominated for deletion.

I'm not insisting, that my opinon is 100% right, but I try to provide the valid arguments in the defense of Iron Mask))) In my article there's the reference for Blabbermouth.net. And in the article about Cradle Of Filth also! By the way, in wiki there are plenty of references at Roadrunnerrecords. Therefore I got a question. Are all these references in other articles reliable? If not, they also should be removed, or I didn't catch again the wikipedia's policy about new articles)))) And one more thing - the article about Graspop Metal Meeting can be found in Wikipedia, in this article there are references at Graspop - the same, that in my article about Iron Mask. And by the way, in Graspop Metal Meeting Iron Mask is mentioned as a member. DzimOZZ 08:21, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

According to CWG magazine Iron Mask is in the list of the best 3333 rock/metal bands of the decade. DzimOZZ

Well, I can provide references, cited by many other articles in wikipedia - Metal Storm Metal Storm (webzine) and Metalglory - if it's necessary. Or perhaps this one will go Maelstrom - there are many references in Wikipedia at this site. DzimOZZ 13:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

About notability. Iron Mask contributed to documentary film about the Canadian heavy metal band Anvil - Anvil! The Story of Anvil. The external link is as follows The Internet Movie Database and I can provide many others. Hope, with this addition my article meets the criteria Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. WP:Notability (music) DzimOZZ 08:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

In Wikipedia's articles about musical bands there are many and many references at Lords Of Metal - Thanasis Lightbridge, Lupus Dei, Antestor, Dol Ammad, Almah (band), Industrial metal, Accept and so on and so on. So, this is also reliable, as the references, that I mentioned above? DzimOZZ 09:26, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

What about my reference for Metal Express Radio? As it seems to me, it should be reliable, 'cause we can find the references at shis site in the wikiarticles Slipknot (band), Europe (band), Machine Head (band) and many others. The same thing for my external link at rockeyz.com. Seems, this sourse is reliable as it is widely-used in Wikipedia's musical articles - Randy Black, The Angel and the Rain, well=known project Danger Angel, Epica (band) and so on, and Archaic Magazine - the references are in 30 wikiarticles.Once again, these are existing articles and the are not nominated for deletion DzimOZZ 09:42, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I checked for another 3 references, that I provided: Metal Archives and Spirit Of Metal and Rock Report. These sites are widely used as references in many Wikipedia's articles. DzimOZZ

One more thing, that I want to mention. It seems to me, that all the articles in Wikipedia, especieally new-created articles should be treated equally by WikiAdministrators. What I mean here is that to ALL THE ARTICLES, and for those about musicians/bands as well, the same rules must be applicable: notability, reliability and so on. This would be fair. But, in Wikipedia there are plenty of articles with NO references, NO links, where the author just mention band members, discography, history, and there are no valid links for it! The example - article about the band Justice. By the way, this band's drummer Rami Ali is mentioned in my article, 'cause for a short time he was memeber of Iron Mask - Justice at musicmight.com Rami Ali's Official Site. So, does this mean that the articles with no references, no link, no coverage could be published in Wikipedia, and the articles like mine about "Iron Mask" (probably a little MORE notable than Justice) are nominated for deletion? Probably, everything that I've mentioned above is just emotions and not an argument, I beg Your pardon for this... But anyway... I expect, that a consensus for my article will be found! Best regards DzimOZZ 16:49, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * For this one, I refer you to WP:AADD - a list of arguments you really want to avoid here in AFD. In this case, pay particular attention to WP:WAX.  We know there are articles, but we can't review them until somebody encounters them, and sometimes they just kind of slip through.  While we have millions of editors here, everyone who works with the site is a human being - and sometimes we just miss stuff. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 22:05, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, Dennis, I got it! More facts, less words))) Iron Mask was covered in Burrn! Magazine (Japan). Their latest album "Shadow Of The Red Baron" is pictured on the inner cover. I've made changes in my article.DzimOZZ —Preceding undated comment added 17:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC).


 * ...dude? That's a link to Ebay.  That's not going to work. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 18:15, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Well,  Chzz  ► explained me, that I can provide references for paper magazines, If the band have appeared in any printed magazines or newspapers. Please check Chzz'talk on the point. I gave link for Ebay just to show you, that Burrn! is a reliable source))) I think, this is verifiable. Of course, it's impossible to provide the direct link for the inner cover - 'cause it's paper magazine, but  Chzz  ► told me about WP:AGF DzimOZZ.  —Preceding undated comment added 18:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC).
 * Are you claiming that this band is notable because there was a picture of their album on the inside cover of this magazine? Could you elaborate on why the picture is there? Is it an advert? The URL you've given doesn't even confirm this much by the way. The ebay listing doesn't suggest that there is an article about the band or album in the magazine.--Michig (talk) 19:30, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Once again - I gave URL just to show, that Burrn! is reliable magazine and to show you the front cover (to explain, that this issue really EXISTS))). What I try to claim is: if a band is covered in notable magazine, does it work for notability of the band in Wikipedia? "Shadow Of The Red Baron" was estimated 80/100 by Burrn!, but unfortunately, I can't prove it by providing the link - the magazine is only on paper(((((((. And what about Iron Mask's contribution to Anvil! The Story of Anvil WP:Notability (music)? (I provided the reference and arguments earlier on this page) Dzimozz (talk) 20:05, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The point that we're all getting at is that you need to demonstrate notability by, for all intents and purposes, showing us the article. Showing the magazine that the article is (possibly) contained in as for sale on Ebay does not show the article - I can't read articles in a magazine for sale on Ebay without buying it, and it's not a publisher's site.  And it's fine that this magazine exists. As for Anvil! The Story of Anvil, well, other stuff exists.  We need reliable sources, and a posting for a magazine on eBay is NOT reliable.  At all.  -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 21:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

All right... I removed the reference for Burrn!((( Probably, this one will help: Burrn! 2000-2010. This is russian site where there are covers of all the Burrn! issues 2000-2010 and short description of each issue (contents). It's stated, that in issue #6 - 2005 there's article 'bout Iron Mask. I can try to find these issues in paper (#6-2005 and #12-2009), scan images & articles 'bout Mask and show to you - but this will not be simple)))) All best!Dzimozz (talk) 04:49, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Userfy/incubate pending further improvement. Stifle (talk) 12:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Allright(((, you're the administration and you're to decide. But before doing so I kindly ask you to evaluate once more all the arguments that I highlited. If it's possible, I would propose not to remove the article, but to remove this AfD and add instead the notion about references and necessary changes (you know). And please take into consideration, that I followed all the user's and administration's recomendations and provided references, that others considered reliable. All best, Iron Mask's Red Baron, Dzimozz(talk) 16:16, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Insufficient coverage in RSs. No objection to userfying or incubating. Novaseminary (talk) 18:12, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Novaseminary (talk)! TNX for your opinion!))) I can send you the image - that proves, that Iron Mask was covered on the inner cover of Burrn! Magazine (japan) #12-2009 Probably, this is not an argument - but I have just searched in Google for  "iron mask" "shadow of the red baron". The  Number  of  results is     1 670 000.Dzimozz (talk) 18:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * See WP:GOOGLE. -- Dennis The Tiger  (Rawr and stuff) 19:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Userfy. I must say Dzimozz gets points for enthusiasm. My questions are:
 * Has this entity won an important award, such as a Grammy award or something equivalent?
 * Has this entity headlined a tour of Europe or America or some other continent?
 * Has this entity had a song high on the national charts of a major nation, or earned a gold record, or something equivalent?
 * Has this entity been written up, even briefly, in the London Times or Le Monde or Der Speigel or similar mainstream publications? Or in Rolling Stone or similar mainstream music publications?
 * And if none of the above -- which I haven't seen any evidence for -- why should we host this article? There are a lot of bands. They all have fans, and their fans want them to have articles. This is a general encyclopedia. Therefore I would say Delete, but in deference to Dzimozz's enthusiasm, I'll vote Userfy. Herostratus (talk) 06:34, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Probably the final argument. All 3 Iron Mask's albums are mentioned at the site of |1&Ne=125&N=127&Ntt=iron+mask Billboard. They are not RANKED, but they are COVERED at Billboard's official site. Will this reference work?Dzimozz (talk) 19:43, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Absolutely not. Will somebody please close this discussion.--Michig (talk) 20:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well put. It's been nine days.  WP:SNOW, anybody? -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 14:10, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. This discussion demonstrates that this band does not meet Wikipedia's notability standard.-- Pink Bull  02:04, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.