Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isaac Saul (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. I've decided to close this discussion as No consensus. If there were more participants here, I think the closure would have been more decisive. I'll just note that the article was tagged for discussion soon after its creation and has been subject to additional editing since its nomination. Liz Read! Talk! 03:06, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Isaac Saul
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This article was previously deleted via a deletion discussion (Articles for deletion/Isaac Saul). Most of the sources provided on the pages are from before the previous discussion, which would indicate that Saul is still non-notable. However, a few sources have been published since the last discussion in 2021. As such, I wouldn't necessarily consider this eligible for CSD, but it's worth discussing whether Saul is now notable. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 20:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Significa liberdade (she/her)  (talk) 20:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Journalism, Politics, New Jersey, New York,  and Pennsylvania.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  20:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for tagging me. I'd like to emphasize some of the new sources I've added to this article between the first and second nomination:, , , , . I thought that these references were some of the strongest in the piece. We now have direct mentions from CNN, Axios, the Financial Times, Forbes, Yahoo! News, Business Insider, Salon, and NBC Universal (none of which are articles Saul published himself). Doesn't this put the article well over the standard three-reference limit?


 * Mover of molehills move me 21:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * So my position is obviously keep, although I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment on my own article. Mover of molehills move me 14:11, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Mover of molehills you're perfectly entitled take a position in the discussion. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 23:59, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Mover of molehills the guideline for notability of people is WP:BIO, which asks for "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject", while WP:THREE suggests presenting three references to show that WP:BIO is met. I don't think the five sources you linked provide the required coverage TSventon (talk) 02:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC) DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 13:32, 21 November 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:00, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Transylvania University: listing for a talk by Saul at TU, not independent coverage
 * Salon.com: quote from Saul, not independent
 * NBCU Academy: looks like a mini interview, so not independent
 * axios.com: listing for a talk by Saul, not independent coverage
 * Financial Times: quote from Saul, not independent
 * Keep — sources should notability, particularly the ones in the "Recognition" section.
 * Comment. The relevant notability criteria here is: WP:JOURNALIST, which says: The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors...The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews... At first glance Saul appears to satisfy this (given that this article makes the "influential" claim with regard to both the 2016 and 2020 elections). But it seems fair enough to have to take a closer look at whether the sources actually bear this out, as there is very little discussion about the specifics around the 2016 election, and rather thin discussion about his other work as a journalist throughout his career. Cielquiparle (talk) 17:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment: I've found a few new sources about Saul since I published this article that I wanted to share, in case it's useful to other reviewers. I haven't added these sources to the article yet, because I'm not sure what specific facts they would support that aren't already in there. However, I thought they could help to establish notability:, , ,.

Relisting comment: Relisting to evaluate newly found sources not placed in the article yet. Right now, there is disagreement over whether existing sources are sufficient to establish notability for this journalist. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:21, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment: I just replaced the Transylvania listing of Isaac Saul's talk, which was justifiably critized by TSventon as not independent enough, with a more detailed article: Mover of molehills move me 23:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Final relist. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 04:28, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. None of the sources above demonstrate anything approaching notability. School newspapers are not independent sources on people their university invites to speak, nor are profiles by organizations the subject belongs to. It takes MUCH more recognition than a handful of mentions surrounding one or two events for someone to meet NJOURNO.
 * JoelleJay (talk) 01:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Understood, although please note that the sources above are only the sources that I added recently – there are quite a few more listed in the article itself. Mover of molehills move me 23:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.