Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Israel FC: Genesis


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. v/r - TP 18:41, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Israel FC: Genesis

 * – ( View AfD View log )

fails WP:GNG. no evidence of significant third party coverage, gnews reveals a mere 3 hits. this article is purely a results listing of a event that fails to get indepth significant coverage. LibStar (talk) 08:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions.  — Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 06:50, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep The promotion is just starting out, and therefore isn't notable yet by itself, but this first event included numerous notable fighters. Secondary sources are needed, but I am inclined to retain the article. This event seems similar to the Australian events Impact FC 1 and Impact FC 2, which were similarly held by a fledgling promotion, but featured numerous notable fighters right out of the gate. The lack of other promotions in the region makes this one potentially more encyclopedic. Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 06:50, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * notable fighters doesn't make it notable, indepth third party coverage does. "The lack of other promotions in the region makes this one potentially more encyclopedic. " does not add to notability at all. LibStar (talk) 13:15, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am aware that secondary sources are necessary for establishing notability, but substantive coverage is only likely to exist if (a) the promotion is notable or (b) the fighters are notable. By pointing out that the fighters are notable, I was making a case for why people shouldn't assume that no such coverage exists. Notable fighters are a necessary, but not sufficient condition. A quick search turned up the following secondary sources. See also Israel Fight Championship: Genesis Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 17:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Israel FC: Genesis" results: Rodriguez, Monson, Trigg win; "Mr. International" retires
 * No retirement for Frank Trigg, booked for Nov. 9 fight in Israel
 * "Mr. International" Shonie Carter Says Goodbye in Israel
 * Poor Ricco Rodriguez: Former Champion Battling Weight in Israel
 * Former UFC Champ Ricco Rodriguez Misses Weight by 10 Pounds in Israel
 * Rodriguez Wins, Challenges Monson at IFC ‘Genesis’ Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 21:31, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * From USAToday.com Big-show alumni rack up wins in Israel Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 16:25, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete There is no independent sourcing of this event. I believe the person who voted "keep' said it all "the promotion ... isn't notable yet". Astudent0 (talk) 14:50, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Lots of sources added by Osubuckeyeguy after my original post. Astudent0 (talk) 16:31, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This is simply not true. There is original independent sourcing by mainstream MMA journalists Jonathan Snowden, Ben Fowlkes, and staff at MMAjunkie.com. See above. Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 17:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete The unknown user who voted Keep is correct when he says this event is as notable as the two Australian events he mentions--they should all be deleted as routine sports coverage. As for "potentially more encyclopedic" I refer you to WP:CRYSTAL. 131.118.229.18 (talk) 15:14, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * * There are also numerous sources available for the two Australian events. Reading those sources was how I knew that these events even took place. MMA events have not been traditionally labeled "routine sports coverage" if the organization or fighters are notable and the articles could be sourced. See Category:Mixed martial arts events for a complete listing of events that have satisfied these criteria. I have used that label in numerous other AfD debates, so I am not opposed to applying it when necessary.
 * * I think you misunderstood my "potentially more encyclopedic" comment. I was not saying "let's see if this organization becomes notable down the road." I feel that if we ignore what country this event was held in to avoid WP:Bias, then the event is notable based on its notable fighters and independent sourcing. If we take into account what country this event was held in, then it is particularly notable in that very few other events with this level of international interest have been held in the region. The relative infrequency of these sorts of events in a country such as Israel makes reporting on them more than just routine sports coverage. We should consider that international events may receive significant press coverage at home in something other than a debater's native language (which would be unlikely to return gnews hits). We also should be careful not to assume that a fledgling promotion is not notable if it is not in the USA or Japan. Solid cards with notable fighters have been held in places like Israel, Brazil, Abu Dhabi, and Australia. These promotions will likely never have the same reach as the UFC, and will probably only hold a few cards each years, but not being the UFC isn't a criteria supporting deletion. Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 18:33, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep This is a very good article as well as a notable event. WölffReik 19:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:ITSNOTABLE is not a reason for keeping. LibStar (talk) 08:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep There seem to be enough sources out there to justify keeping this article. Normally, I'd vote to delete an article like this because it's just routine sports coverage, but there appear to be enough other sources and storylines that the article could be improved and AfD is not the right tool for articles that are salvageable. Papaursa (talk) 03:05, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep It's important that mma from across the world is represented within wikipedia not just from the USA and Japan. Strong main card involving fighters with UFC experience and ex champions such as Ricco Rodriguez and other well known fighters such Jeff Monson, Frank Trigg and Hermes Franca.  At worst I would suggest maybe a couple more sources if possible and if there are additional Israel FC events I would like to see them too.  jsmith006 (talk) 17:02, 2 July 2011
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 14:45, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete Although there may be some notable fighters in this event, I say delete because the promotion is little known. Maybe as Israel FC grows and becomes sort of a European version of Bellator, then it can warrant an article. If kept, then it sets a precedent that there should be an article for every event that a "notable" fighter fought in. For example, just because notables Antonio Rogerio Nogueira and Vladimir Matyushenko fought at UFO: Legend in Tokyo in 2002, doesn't mean it deserves an article. Jahahn   ( gab )  23:15, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.