Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Issamar Ginzberg


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. — CYBERPOWER  ( Be my Valentine) 13:44, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Issamar Ginzberg

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Promotional article sourced largely to either incidental mentions in reliable sources or profiles in non-notable sources. I gave up after deleting the reference to him as a descendant of King David. Article is unsalvageable. Coretheapple (talk) 15:19, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 16:20, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 16:20, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 16:20, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep There is credible, in-depth coverage already in the article here from the Times of Israel in the United States / Israel and here from the Jewish Telegraph in the U.K., among other in-depth coverage in reliable and verifiable sources that is indisputably about him; these mentions are anything but "incidental". There are also dozens of sources that are incidental quotes or mentions, or mere overkill, such as the string of sources "[15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31]" supporting a single sentence. I agree with the nominator that the tone is promotional and that the issue needs to be addressed, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the "Article is unsalvageable". AfD is not cleanup; the article should be retained and any concerns about tone or content should be appropriately addressed through discussion, consensus-building and editing. Alansohn (talk) 17:54, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The Forward published this source about him. Then there's this source from The Christian Science Monitor that is entirely about him and that comes from a nationally recognized, religious-oriented paper entirely unaffiliated with Judaism or this one, an interview with him from the Christian Broadcasting Network. All of these additional sources were found by clicking on the "News" link in this article's AfD header, a basic element of WP:BEFORE.This Keep is a no-brainer. Alansohn (talk) 18:32, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete -- a highly-promotional article on a subject who is not notable as either "business strategy and marketing consultant" or a "motivational speaker". The source offered above is part of the same promo pool of sources; it promotes his speech at an expo and includes an interview, again self-promotional. Being a columninst does not meet WP:AUTHOR and there's nothing better. K.e.coffman (talk) 21:29, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * , the article is promotional, but again that's a matter for editing and not a valid excuse for deletion. Tossing away one cherry-picked source that you have baselessly determined is not acceptable to you accomplishes nothing, unless you can dispense with *ALL* of them. There are five sources cited above, either already in the article or available to be added, all of which are undeniably in-depth articles about him in reliable and verifiable sources, and there are plenty more available. No one has claimed that he's notable as a columnist; he's also not notable as a soccer player under WP:FOOTY or as a paratrooper under WP:SOLDIER, but he is notable under WP:GNG based on the coverage he's received. Alansohn (talk) 01:07, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm glad we all agree that the article is promotional. It is a product of a marketing person's marketing, the sources are all a product of that marketing, and Wikipedia is not an advertising vehicle. Coretheapple (talk) 13:07, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep he is notable as a person, I think this article meets the WP:BIO policy with the new sources identified above. Ilyina Olya Yakovna (talk) 21:52, 21 January 2018 (UTC) — WP:SOCKSTRIKE

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:29, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not sure I'd call this canvassing, but it might come off that way. . Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:41, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * There's also this Coretheapple (talk) 19:33, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems innocent enough, and no obvious reaction yet. But 7000+ people saw that tweet, I would be wary of new editors swarming in. (If you are a new editor reading this, don't bother commenting unless you have something substantial to say, this is a discussion, not a vote). However this is not enough to get me to change my comment at this point. Ilyina Olya Yakovna (talk) 21:34, 2 February 2018 (UTC) — WP:SOCKSTRIKE
 * Thanks for the subbed template. That's actually the one I had in mind but couldn't find it. Coretheapple (talk) 23:11, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. It seems most of the content here stems from a PR persons's PR. The canvassing is troubling as well. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Hello! Issamar Ginzberg here,the person being weighed for notability in this AfD. :)
 * Keep True that the page needs to be cleaned up. Also true that the subject is notable.  He has extensive news references in  The US and Israel Adamreinman(talk) 16:11, 4 February 2018 (UTC)


 * No Vote, but... Thank you for those who pointed me to this discussion and the gentlemen from Quora who let me know that I can/should weigh in on the discussion.

This profile of me, which I've obviously seen before, is a profile that is super full of all kinds of references; overkill in a big way. I did not want to come and delete or change anything because it would be "tampering" with the profile, and I hope(d) to no avail that this would get cleaned up by the Wikipedia community as time went along.

there must be fifty(?) or more footnotes and sourced to this article, a great many of which do, as has been pointed out, point to sources where I am quoted as a by-the-way, such as in Prevention Magazine, National Geographic, Reader's Digest, and so on. And, while those mentions are important to me from a business perspective, they alone do not give me the kind of notability that is rightfully required from a Wikipedia-worthy entry.

At the same time, were it not for those references, there probably are way more than enough serious profiles/references/sources to make this profile worthy of the Wikipedia entry. But again... i'm not the judge here!

So, to help you make an informed decision, let me quote some places I have been mentioned that may help voters make up their minds...

I've lectured and spoken at conferences across the world (Within the USA: New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Arizona) in Montreal, Canada, and in the UK in London and Manchester. And in Israel, I've spoken in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and other cities. The tens if not hundreds of well known and impressive venues include Google, Tel Aviv University, the Jewish National Funds Biannual Conference, the Jerusalem Post, and Jerusalem Institute of Technology. These have been covered extensively in the Hebrew, Yiddish, and English Media.

I've also been profiled by the Christian Science Monitor, Mishpacha Magazine, the Jerusalem Post, the Christian Broadcasting Network, Ami Magazine, the Jewish Tribune, Globes TV, Channel 9 (in Russian) and many other media outlets, in addition to the hundreds of mentions in other media outlets like TV interviews on CBS, NewsMax TV, and quoted that appeared in media outlets across the globe, from Costco Magazine and the Kuwait Times to the New York Times, Nasdaq.com, CNBC, and Fox Business.

I should probably also mention that I'm a weekly columnist for Hamodia, the prominent Ultra-Orthodox Paper in four English language editions (Ha'aretz (where I've been quoted too!) quotes the circulation at 100,000... have the dominating Yiddish language business podcast... and write for Entrepreneur Magazine and the Jerusalem Post as well. I've also contributed to several books either as myself or as a ghostwriter to help my clients get published. (shh!)

I'm also a graduate of the Rabbinic (Semicha) Program of Ohr Somayach, a Certified Mohel, and (to those of you who believe in the truth of the Bible, at least) have a chain of generations stretching back up from my own family all the way back to King David. (And yes, for those who care.. the lineage of King David back to "Zaidy" Adam and "Grandma" Eve is documented in the Bible itself.)

But I probably shouldn't mention that.. because I think that that might be what got this whole AfD started! :-)

So thank you everyone for your input, and may the chips fall where they may...

(putting on my business advisor/columnist hat here): at least there's a good way to teach a lesson out of this...

This must be a teeny tiny bit like (putting on my Rabbi hat now) what it's like when one gets to heaven after life on earth and they dissect his every action and judge him or her worthy...

Thank you for letting me have my say. And thanks for reading! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rabbiissamar (talk • contribs) 17:06, 4 February 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   21:50, 5 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.