Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/It's a Miracle (TV series)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 19:59, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

It's a Miracle (TV series)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I found a few press releases announcing the show's hosts, but as we all know, press releases are WP:PRIMARY sources. It's also mentioned in passing in various articles about new shows debuting or being renewed on PAX, but that's the key phrase: "in passing". No reviews seem to have been published at any point in the show's history, nor did it do anything worthy of media attention outside a couple "Local X to appear on It's a Miracle" type human-interest stories which are not enough on their own to support the article. This show was just... there for its entire life. I'm not expecting FA-level coverage on a no-budget Christian show on a network that doesn't even exist anymore, but this one seems to have flown completely under the radar. However, the show's relatively long shelf life (six seasons) is the only reason I'm sending this to AFD and not PROD. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:45, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:45, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - Solid search for sources cannot locate any, let alone significant, coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject. This TV show is insufficiently notable to warrant a standalone article. Such-change47 (talk) 04:17, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - changing my vote to keep based on the sources found by Cunard MaxnaCarter (talk) 06:48, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The book provides 247 words of coverage about the subject. The book notes that It's a Miracle was first telecast September 6, 1998, and last telecast August 12, 2006. The book lists the hosts: Billy Dean (1998), Nia Peeples (1998–1999), Richard Thomas (1998–2003), and Roma Downey (2003–2004). The book notes: "Each episode of this inspirational series presented several incidents in which miracles had changed or saved the lives of people. Most segments used re-creations of the actual incidents, with the real people describing what had happened to them, and in some cases actually participating. After their stories had been told, some of them were introduced to the studio audience in the theater from which It's a Miracle originated. Among the topics were medical miracles, dreams and visions, guardian angels, premonitions, and warning voices. One segment told of a man who didn't understand why he had been drawn to the Hermosa Beach Pier until meeting a fisherman with whom he became friendly. He found that his kidneys were a perfect match for the fisherman's, who needed a transplant to save his life. In another a man survived the crash of his small plane when he was guided by an angelic presence, and got out of the burning plane just before it exploded. Each episode also included a few "miraculous moments"—short man-on-the-street-type interviews with people who related what they believed to have been miracles in their lives." The book provides one more paragraph about the show.   The article notes: "Producers of the PAX network show, It's a Miracle, thought the hospital would make a good location for filming a re-enactment of a "miracle," and it turned several hospital employees into actors. ... Actor Richard Thomas hosts the show, which began in 1998 and re-creates true-life accounts of miracles. ... The miracle filmed Monday was related to the story of Sandy Rish, 49, of Fullerton. She played herself in the film. ... At the hospital, the film crew shot in the radiology unit for an MRI scene, in an emergency room, in a patient room in acute rehabilitation and in an operating room. ... It's a Miracle -- a 60-minute reality-based show -- is aired locally at 8 p.m. Thursdays on Channel 8. Rish's story has yet to be scheduled."   The article notes: "Two different producers of the PAX TV cable station picked up on both of these stories separately, and a crew arrived in Wallowa County from Los Angeles last week to recreate the stories for its popular "It's a Miracle" program hosted by Roma Downey. ... Filming started on the Hileman story Sunday morning at the Wallowa County Sheriff's Office, the nerve center for the search for her in the fall of 2002. It was moved later in the day to the Dave Nelson place in Allen Canyon in rural Lostine. ... Filming continued until after dark and through Monday, when Mischelle Hileman and her parents, Benny and Jan, who live also live on Allen Canyon Road, were interviewed and filmed. ... Among those who played a part in the TV reenactment were Bill Lehr and Marilyn Siefert, the friends ..."   The article notes: "Richard Thomas, whose role as John-Boy in The Waltons was as wholesome as wholesome gets, will host family friendly PAX TV's show It's a Miracle, Paxson Communications Chairman Lowell "Bud" Paxson said Wednesday. Thomas joins actress Nia Peeples as co-host of the show, replacing country singer Billy Dean. The change is set for this Sunday. ...  It's a Miracle is a one-hour weekly series that airs at 9 p.m. Sunday. The program tells stories of real-life miracles, such as a pet that saved family members' lives and the success of a young man who started life as a drug-addicted, abandoned baby."   The article notes: "Mike Downey's miraculous survival from a surfing accident in January will be a featured segment on an upcoming episode of TV's "It's a Miracle" on the Pax Network. A film crew was in town Friday and Saturday to interview those involved and to re-enact the accident that almost claimed the Los Osos resident and professional surfer's life. Christopher Poole, a freelance director working on Downey's story, has worked for the reality show since it began. Now entering its sixth season, the show will have eight new episodes, with the re-enactment of Downey's near-death experience set for airing in mid-October, said Poole. Actor Richard Thomas, of The Waltons fame, is the host of the show."   The article notes: "A feel-good story about a watch that lay at the bottom of Phillips Lake for 68 years until it was unearthed by a determined scuba diver will be featured early next year on the Pax Network show, "It's a Miracle." ... Hosted by actor Richard Thomas, "It's a Miracle" airs Thursdays at 8 p.m. on Channel 33. A four-member crew from Los Angeles will visit the Bangor area next week to begin filming for the 15-minute segment, which will combine interviews of the actual participants with recreated scenes." </li> <li> The article notes: "The true story of a Fairfield man whose ring was lost last year in Waterville before it turned up in a box of golf clubs in Florida will air at 8 p.m. Thursday on the PAX TV show, "It's A Miracle." The show, hosted by Richard Thomas of "The Waltons" fame, is available through Adelphia cable as well as via regular broadcast in some areas. The show will recount the saga of Jonathan Klane, 41, of Fairfield, who lost a 70-year-old ring in February 2001. ... "It's a Miracle" producers contacted Klane last year after a story about his experience appeared in the Morning Sentinel as well as on the Internet. A television crew from California came to Waterville last June and filmed the show at locations including Larsen's Jewelry Store on Main Street, and Mail-It-Quik on College Avenue, according to Klane, who appears in the show." </li> <li>Less significant coverage:<ol> <li> The article notes: "The most enduring Pax original is "It's a Miracle" (10 p.m. weeknights), in which Richard Thomas ("The Waltons") introduces feel-good stories of reunions and rescues (tonight, a moose is saved!), all badly re-enacted but calculated to ensure a much better night's sleep than watching the news ever would." </li> <li> The article notes: "It turns out that Pax is more successful when it doesn’t try to clone “Touched By an Angel.” Take “It’s a Miracle”, for example. Starting its second season Thursday night at 8, “It’s a Miracle” is sort of a reality-based news show, Pax-style. Host Richard Thomas reports on modern-day miracles, which are told in reenactments and in interviews with the people who witnessed them. Corny as they may be, you’d have to have a heart made out of concrete not to like the stories on “It’s a Miracle,” especially the one about a beloved dog named Sailor who was so sick he would have been euthanized if not for the intervention of another dog named Angel." </li> <li> The article notes: "It's a Miracle (Thursdays) can get pretty gooey, too, but unlike the superior "Twice in a Lifetime," it's a stranger-than-fiction approach to perfectly plausible events with more or less happy endings. Host Richard Thomas (John Boy on "The Waltons") lends some credibility because he projects sincerity. But the title, and worse, the melodramatic tone of the stories, seem excessive for the kinds of events the show chronicles." </li> <li> The article notes: "Another TV veteran, Richard Thomas, plays the chipper host of It's a Miracle, beginning its second season on Thursday. The show is a hybrid of Rescue 911 and Dateline - the cheapie graphics recall the NBC newsmagazine. The show mixes tacky re-enactments of unusual incidents and interviews with those who lived through them. There are astonishing recoveries by a lifeless patient in the operating room and by a declining dog visited by a pooch named Angel." </li> <li> The article notes: "Elizabeth's story will be profiled tonight on Pax network's It's A Miracle series, airing today at 8 p.m. on satellite networks and at 11 p.m. on cable. The episode, hosted by Roma Downey, will be a combination of a re-creation of the event and interviews with the family." </li> <li> The article notes: "Marty Rosenblum is not an actor. He's the suite-catering supervisor at Gund Arena. But a friend who is a casting agent thought he would be just right for a part in Pax TV's "It's a Miracle."" </li> <li> The article notes: "More than a year ago, Carol McAdams prepared for her television debut. The story of a dulcimer and her search for a connection to her father landed her a segment on PAX-TV's show It's a Miracle. The show is hosted by Richard Thomas, made famous by his role as John-Boy on the popular 1970s series The Waltons. McAdams' segment, titled Instrument of God, will air tonight at 8. ... McAdams re-enacted her story for a film crew in Asheboro in January 2001. Both Collectors Antique Mall and Evans Music Center were used as locations during taping. Richard Evans of Evans Music Center also is featured in McAdams' segment." </li> <li> The article notes: "Actress-singer Nia Peeples will join country crooner Billy Dean as co-host of fledgling Pax TV's "It's a Miracle." ... Story categories include romantic miracles, answered prayers, angel encounters, medical miracles, good Samaritans, miracles from the animal kingdom and children's inspirational stories." </li> <li> The article notes: "It's a Miracle. What it's about: Think Unsolved Mysteries meets Oprah. Producers re-create miracles, then interview the people involved. You'll hear about dogs who saved little boys from drowning and lovers who fell in love at an organ donors convention. Wait. . . the producers swear It's A Miracle won't turn into a sleazy, reality-based show. ... It's hosted by the odd-couple pair of Nia Peebles (Dance Party) and country singer Billy Dean. If the stories are boring, at least we know the hosts can sing and dance." </li> </ol></li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow It's a Miracle to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 07:56, 15 May 2022 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * I'm not convinced. All but the first of those is just some variant of "Local X to appear on It's a Miracle". They confirm that the show exists, but nothing more. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:00, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The sources that discuss local people who have appeared on the show provide significant coverage of the background and production of the show's episodes so establish notability about the show. Cunard (talk) 04:25, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * They're still just local human-interest stories, not actually about the show itself. All they confirm is that the show exists. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Sources that cover the background and production of the show's episodes do more than confirm that the shows exists. They provide a basis for verifying content about each of the article's episodes and the show's history. Cunard (talk) 18:30, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Which of those sources gives background info on the show? I didn't see a word of that anywhere. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:12, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ,, , and all provide background about the show and the show's episodes in the quotes I have provided here. Cunard (talk) 19:26, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * And they're just going to automatically add themselves to the article, right? I don't know why you even bother digging up sources if you're just gonna dump them in the AFD and just hope and pray that somehow they add themselves to the article. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:27, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I previously replied to you here about why I do not always add sources to articles I support retaining at AfD. Cunard (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Analysis of Cunard's sources:
 * 1) The first source is an encyclopedia, which itself is not sufficient absent anything else.
 * 2) This one is all about the hospital, and says literally nothing about the show other than it airs on PAX. After the first paragraph, it gives up on mentioning the show entirely.
 * 3) The Wallowa County source does not load for me.
 * 4) This is a press release made by the show itself.
 * 5) This also says literally nothing about the show other than it airs on PAX, and doesn't even talk about the show after the first paragraph.
 * 6) This? Same deal. Literally all it says about the show is that it "airs Thursdays at 8 p.m. on Channel 33."
 * 7) This? Says nothing about the show other than that Richard Thomas hosted it.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 06:06, 19 May 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 11:30, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * So out of eight sources, one is dead already, and the only information gleaned from ALL OF THEM is "this show airs on PAX". Where is information on production? Hosts? The length of the show? The content of the show? I don't see an iota of it in all of that. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:39, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment/Notes on your Analysis
 * 1) From WP:PSTS Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability Tertiary sources(encyclopedias) are fine. While better to have secondary, they still help establish notability per policy.
 * 2) Short but detailed article about the filming of an episode, multiple mentions of the show and its production process. First 159 of of 548 words Miracles might not happen every day. But it did Monday for San Clemente Hospital. Producers of the PAX network show, It's a Miracle,... ...The show itself takes real people with real experiences, Jackson said. ``Call it coincidence, we like to call it miracle. are about the show, then 193 of 548 words discuss the Rish(mention she plays herself also) and the miracle. Then another 77 words about the show Jackson said the show's researchers look for inspirational stories like this to re-tell for the viewing public. ``Everything these people have gone through are stories that need to be told," he said. He said the show has produced hundreds of such stories. Jackson said it usually takes about a day for interviews with those involved and two to three days for the filming. Rish's story was being filmed at San Clemente Hospital and in her Fullerton cafe. Then a small bit about the hospital and where they filmed, and list the other people from the hospital that were featured in the show. Then those closing sentence with the shows information. Please explain what you mean it says literally nothing about the show other than where it airs, and explain how it gave up mentioning the show after the first paragraph. This article discusses the show, and gives details about this specific episode and where/when it was filmed
 * 3) Here is an alternate link to the Wallowa County source. It covered production information of this and another show that was being filmed there simultaneously.
 * 4) Explain what you mean by press release made by the show itself. It was written by Author/Byline: Marguerite M. Plunkett - Palm Beach Post Staff Writer What does The Palm Beach Post or M. Plunkett have to do with the show or it's production? What is the relation you are stating when you say made by the show? "Thomas' publicist couldn't be reached Wednesday. Sloan would not reveal the terms of his contract."Does that sound like someone from the inside?
 * 5) Similar to #2, detailed article about the filming of a specific episode. First 150 of 449 words are about the show/filmcrew/episode/director. 185 of 449 about the miracle itself, mentioning a few names of people. Then 49 words, mentioning those people and others invovled volunteered to take part in the show. Also describes how the episodes subject's wife found it difficult to watch the film crew recreate the scene at hospital. Once again, it talks about the show/episode, and it does so well after the first paragraph. Explain you reasoning for saying it doesn't talk about show past first paragraph.
 * 6) Couldn't load archive, but same article here. 216 of 335 about the show. It tells us the shows host, it tells us the name of the segment the local women is about. It also names two other segments that are airing on the same episode with a brief description of one. It tells us the local women re-enacted her story, tells us city it was filmed tells us two specific location where it was filmed and the presumably owner of one of the location is also featured in the episode. How is that nothing but "airs Thursdays at 8 p.m. on Channel 33"?
 * 7) The show, hosted by Richard Thomas of "The Waltons" fame, is available through Adelphia cable as well as via regular broadcast in some areas. Info about show's host and its broadcasting availability. "It's a Miracle" producers contacted Klane last year after a story about his experience appeared in the Morning Sentinel as well as on the Internet. A television crew from California came to Waterville last June and filmed the show at locations including Larsen's Jewelry Store on Main Street, and Mail-It-Quik on College Avenue, according to Klane, who appears in the show. Details when show contacted the subject, along with exact locations where they filmed the show, mention Klane appears in show. Rest of article just about Klane. This one is only one with just "first paragraph about show". 187 words if you want to include everything from that section, or 126 words if you exclude the part describe the miracle the episode is about. But it definitely tells more than just Richard Thomas hosted it.
 * From the sources he listed, a few talked about production of the show(or an episode). The first one list all the host for the 7 years that it was on air, other sources mention the host at the time of printing, some detailing what else they were known for. Multiple articles provided mention it is an hour long show, included in one of the quotes from above. Multiple source describe the show as combination of reenactments, interviews, and involved people telling the story. The sources he cited literally describe all the things that you claim you don't see an iota of any of it. I don't understand why dismiss everything and then claim they don't provide any info. Please read and review articles before dismissing it completely. I can't believe any of these articles were seriously read when you claim information that is actually in the articles isn't there. If you are going to argue that something is not significant coverage, please do not claim things about the source that aren't true. Unfortunately some people will not read the source and will just read your comment and believe it to be true, taking advantage of that is not productive. <b style="color:#000080; font-family:Tahoma">WikiVirus</b><u style="font-family: Tahoma">C <b style="color:#008000">(talk)</b> 15:46, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) *additional comment Found an additional source while I was looking for sources about the three books he wrote, I only found brief mentions such as this one. GOODE, STEPHEN (March 1, 2003) "Spirit TV - The Small Screen Takes on Eternity." The World & I, vol. 18, no. 3, sec. TELEVISION, p. 70. - Mentioned multiple times throughout article, but it is not focus of article. Describes what a typical episode consist of, and describes a specific episode's story. Talks about host Richard Thomas, mentions his book of same name It's a Miracle, a compilations of stories from the show. <b style="color:#000080; font-family:Tahoma">WikiVirus</b><u style="font-family: Tahoma">C <b style="color:#008000">(talk)</b> 15:46, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - As an admirable effort has been made by Cunard (talk), I feel it was obligatory to review their work and reassess my vote. I recall having previously been swayed by this user on another AFD vote and voted keep. On this occasion, I remain a delete vote. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) makes a solid argument the sources listed do not constitute significant coverage conferring notability on the subject, and so I remain unconvinced in the articles notability, hence it ought to be deleted. Such-change47 (talk) 04:16, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: I will focus on the first two sources on my list of sources. It is undisputed that the first source,, provides significant coverage about the show. It is a 247-word entry about the show. I will spend time looking at the second source, . The article says that actor Richard Thomas is the show's host, the show began in 1998, the show is in its fifth season, the show is 60 minutes, Peter Jackson is the field producer of the show, the show "re-creates true-life accounts of miracles", interviewing people involved in the miracle takes roughly a day, and filming takes two to three days. The article discusses the production details of an episode involving Sandy Sish who had had seizures. It says that San Clemente Hospital was chosen to reenact the "miracle" and that hospital employees became actors for the episode. The hospital employees who acted in the episode included a doctor from a San Clemente hospital, a nurse, a physical therapist, a radiologist, and two operating room surgical technicians. Further production details are that filming took place in "the radiology unit for an MRI scene, in an emergency room, in a patient room in acute rehabilitation and in an operating room". The substantial coverage of the production and background constitutes significant coverage of the television show. These two sources are enough for It's a Miracle to meet Notability. The other sources provide production details about other episodes; examples are , , and .  Cunard (talk) 06:35, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: I found a brief but critically negative source about the subject:<ol><li> The article provides 67 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "It's a Miracle (Thursdays) can get pretty gooey, too, but unlike the superior "Twice in a Lifetime," it's a stranger-than-fiction approach to perfectly plausible events with more or less happy endings. Host Richard Thomas (John Boy on "The Waltons") lends some credibility because he projects sincerity. But the title, and worse, the melodramatic tone of the stories, seem excessive for the kinds of events the show chronicles." </li></ol> Cunard (talk) 07:29, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - Multiple articles on the show or individual episodes of the show were already found, the show was on the air for ~7 years and filmed all over, we can assume there are others out there, but more than enough have been found to pass WP:GNG. Each source does not need to contain every little detail about the show, a combination of many sources can give us the information we need. The sources already provided above aren't just trivial mentions they are significant enough to help pass GNG. <b style="color:#000080; font-family:Tahoma">WikiVirus</b><u style="font-family: Tahoma">C <b style="color:#008000">(talk)</b> 15:46, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The issue is that the sources contain no detail. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 15:50, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Please review the details I provided above in my comment about your analysis when you previously claimed that they provide no detail. <b style="color:#000080; font-family:Tahoma">WikiVirus</b><u style="font-family: Tahoma">C <b style="color:#008000">(talk)</b> 16:08, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You didn't prove at all how the sources say anything about the show. I just went through every single one, and combined, all we know is that it aired on PAX. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 16:16, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't prove they say anything about the show? What are you talking about. I talked about several things the articles mention about the show in my comments above. I literally quoted or described what they said about the show. This isn't a scientific proof, either they talked about the show and told us about it or they didn't. They did. I can't be bothered to argue if you are going to just keep claiming all they did was tell us it airs on PAX. Also I asked several questions about your prior analysis. Feel free to respond to them. <b style="color:#000080; font-family:Tahoma">WikiVirus</b><u style="font-family: Tahoma">C <b style="color:#008000">(talk)</b> 16:47, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no question this TV show existed and someone somewhere discussed it online. the issue is whether or not the coverage is significant. The coverage is not significant. The sources are not meaningful, substantive coverage of the article subject in reliable, independent publications. Hence this article subject simply is not sufficiently notable for inclusion. Such-change47 (talk) 03:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * He said all we know from the coverage is it aired on PAX. I said they said a lot more than that, that was what my response was to. If you agree with him, you agree with him. <b style="color:#000080; font-family:Tahoma">WikiVirus</b><u style="font-family: Tahoma">C <b style="color:#008000">(talk)</b> 03:57, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * He said all we know from the coverage is it aired on PAX. I said they said a lot more than that, that was what my response was to. If you agree with him, you agree with him. <b style="color:#000080; font-family:Tahoma">WikiVirus</b><u style="font-family: Tahoma">C <b style="color:#008000">(talk)</b> 03:57, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep Based on the extensive list above, coverage of the show exists, while most of it is trivial, added together I think we have enough to keep the article. Oaktree b (talk) 14:04, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per the citations listed by Cunard. Passes at the very least WP:GNG Donald D23   talk to me  18:08, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Interestingly, all 3 book volumes are in my local library. It had 1.6 million weekly viewers at one point. Never mind that, with the sources above this passes GNG.Jacona (talk) 12:30, 30 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.