Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Italian Inventions and discoveries


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Icewedge (talk) 07:16, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Italian Inventions and discoveries

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

This list is arbitrary, unsustainable and indefensible. It includes inventions by cultures (Latin alphabet) that preceded Italy, inventions by Italian expatriates working for other countries (nuclear reactor by Fermi), concepts that can't really be called inventions at all (art academy), inventions that are widely claimed by others (light bulb), etc. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 22:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Is there any reasons for keeping this tendentious page? Bigshot4ever (talk) 23:48, 18 November 2009 (UTC) — Bigshot4ever (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 *  Keep Comment At first glance, it would appear that WikiDan is correct. Indeed, I started typing a 'delete' !vote - but then I looked into it a bit more. Let's look at the first few entries:


 * "Acqueduct The Romans": the Aquaduct article says Although particularly associated with the Romans, aqueducts were devised much earlier in the Near East and Indian subcontinent, where peoples such as the Egyptians and Harappans built sophisticated irrigation systems. Roman-style aqueducts were used as early as the 7th century BC, when the Assyrians built an 80 km long limestone aqueduct, 10 m high and 300 m wide, to carry water across a valley to their capital city, Nineveh.
 * ✅ "Aerial Warfare Italian Army-War with Turkey 1911": Aerial warfare mentions kites and balloons being used before this! If the author means using aeroplanes, though, they are correct (see Aerial_warfare), so I'll AGF
 * ✅ "Aerial Bombing Italian Army-War with Turkey 1911": Ditto
 * ✅ "Aerial Reconaissance Italian Army-War with Turkey 1911": Ditto
 * ✅ "Aerial Transport Italian Army-War with Turkey 1911": Ditto
 * "Airpower Strategy Giulio Douhet 1911": Debateable! The US were thinking of it about the same time (Aerial_warfare)
 * ✅ "Afterburner (aircraft) Secondo Campini 1941": Secondo Campini shows the year as 1940 - although the British Power Jets W.2 was developed around the same time
 * ✅ "Alendronate Istituto Gentili 1980s": Alendronic acid doesn't give attribution, and "|Alendronate was licensed to Merck & Co., Inc. by Istituto Gentili SPa of Pisa, Italy in 1988 and is approved in 28 other countries."
 * ✅ "Alphabet (Latin) The Romans": History_of_the_Latin_alphabet says It is generally held that the Latins adopted the western variant of the Greek alphabet in the 7th century BC from Cumae, a Greek colony in southern Italy, making the early Latin alphabet one among several Old Italic alphabets emerging at the time. - assume AGF
 * ✅ "Alphabet (Runic) Italic Peoples": Runic_alphabet says The origins of the runic alphabet are uncertain. Many characters of the Elder Futhark bear a close resemblance to characters from the Latin alphabet. Other candidates are the 5th to 1st century BC Northern Italic alphabets: Lepontic, Rhaetic and Venetic, all of which are closely related to each other and descend from the Old Italic alphabet.
 * "Ambulance Arcicoonfraternita Della Misericordia (florence) 1244": I can't find a specific reference online to "Arcicoonfraternita Della Misericordia" and ambulances (whether or not in 1244). History_of_the_ambulance would seem to suggest that it was either before this (Anglo-Saxons) or after this (Spain in 1487).
 * ✅ "Anemometer Leon Battista Alberti 1450": Anemometer confirms this (with a citation), whereas Leon Battista Alberti neglects to mention it - I might rememdy that later!
 * "Anesthesia Ugo Da Lucca 1200": Anesthesia suggests that the Sumarians used opium as recorded in 1500BC. Gaseous anesthesias started being used from 1769. (No article on Ugo Da Lucca)
 * "Art Academy Florence 1563": Neither a discovery nor an invention. Royal Academy of Art (The Hague) says that it is the oldest Art Academy in Europe (1682), whereas Accademia dell'Arte del Disegno (Florence) says it was founded in 1561. Either way, this isn't a discovery or invention.
 * ✅ "Artificial Insemination Lazzaro Spallanzani (done at Pavia) 1784": The history of artiﬁcial insemination confirms this
 * ✅ "Artificial Pneumothorax Carlo Forlanini 1882": Artificial pneumothorax in the treatment of lung tuberculosis states that while "In 1822 James Carson originated the concept and principles... Fornalini in 1984 independently revived the concept of APT using the closed method of needle induction, as later accepted."
 * ✅ "Attack Frogmen (Seals) Italian Navy 1918": as per Frogman
 * "Ballet Baltazarini Di Belgioioso 1489": History_of_ballet confirms ballet originated in Italy, and Music_of_Italy mentions Di Belgioioso. Whether it counts as an invention or discovery is debateable
 * "Banks Bank of San Giorgio,Genoa 1149": History of banking talks about forms of banks in the 3rd millenium BC
 * ✅ "Barometer Evangelista Torricelli 1643": Barometer shows that Torricelli made the first working barometer intentionally, as opposed to Gasparo Berti, an Italian mathematician and astronomer, who unintentionally built a water barometer sometime between 1640 and 1643. French scientist and philosopher Rene Descartes described the design of an experiment on atmospheric pressure determination as early as 1631, but there is no evidence that he built a working barometer at that time.
 * "Bassoon Afranio of Pavia 1500": Bassoon says Music historians generally consider the dulcian to be the forerunner of the modern bassoon, as the two instruments share many characteristics: a double reed fitted to a metal crook, obliquely drilled tone holes, and a conical bore that doubles back on itself. The origins of the dulcian are obscure, but by the mid 16th century it was available in as many as eight different sizes, from soprano to great bass. Also "Ferrara - Voci di una Città - Afranio, a Virtuoso Phagotus Player" says The phagotus was invented by Afranio degli Albonesi da Pavia... Rather than a precursor of today's bassoon, the phagotus was a refined version of the bagpipes
 * ✅ "Binishells (airform buildings) Dante Bini 1970s": Binishell confirms this
 * "B.L.A.S.T. Algorhytm Gerard J. Foschini 1996": Gerard Joseph Foschini was born in New Jersey, and was working at Bell Labs in New Jersey when he developed [Bell Laboratories Layered Space-Time|BLAST]]
 * "Books The Romans": According to History of the book the Romans used wax-covered wooden tablets - however this would mean that the Clay tablets used in Mesopotamia in the third millenium BC would count as books! Books in the form we know today were in Greece before the Romans started producing books.
 * ✅ "Broma Process Domenico Ghirardelli 1865": Broma process and [Domingo Ghirardelli]] confirm this.


 * So I feel that this article needs work (wikilinks, removal of some of the entries, conversion to a proper table) - but it works as a list - although I would probably rename it to "List of..." --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 00:32, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. I appreciate Phantomsteve's point, but this will never work, even as a List article. What is an "Italian" invention or discovery? Something invented by an Italian it Italy? An Italian outside of Italy? A non-Italian in Italy? An Italian-American (whose descended from Italian immigrants) outside of Italy? Roman inventions? Inventions by Roman citizens outside of what we would now call Italy? Inventions made by the Ancient Greek colonies in what is now modern Italy? Hence the problem... Singularity42 (talk) 02:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete How I would define an "Italian" invention or discovery is: one which is done by an Italian/Roman in the area that we now call Italy. I'll be honest, my initial thought was "delete", and after some more thought, I am going to change my !vote to "delete", as it is too problematic to clearly define the criteria for inclusion on the list. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 02:29, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. For many discoveries in the list, the priority can well be debated, thus an obvious POV issue. (technical note: poor formatting). Materialscientist (talk) 06:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:03, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. Nick-D (talk) 07:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.