Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iván Enrique Rodríguez (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Eddie891 Talk Work 11:27, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Iván Enrique Rodríguez
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

An article with the same title was deleted in 2013, on the grounds of lack of notability and probable WP:COI. The same issues relate to the present article. It was originally presented as a draft and turned down, despite which the editor User:MahlerLover uploaded it on 30 September as an article to mainspace with the comment "The Article is ready. Per recommendation of a couple of editors and edits themselves from other community members, I believe the article is ready for WP mainspace." It continues to fail on the grounds of absence of reliable independent sources, misleading references, WP:NOTABILITY and apparent WP:COI. Detailed examples and discussions of these can be seen at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Composers, including examples of inaccurate sources, and non-independent sources. User:MahlerLover has attempted to deflect these by comments about racism in WP standards, but has not attempted seriously to address the deficiencies in the article. User:MahlerLover has not contributed to any other WP articles.Smerus (talk) 07:05, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * By the way, the article is illustrated throughout by photos uploaded to WikiCommons by "IvanEComposer", claiming that they are "IvanEComposer"'s own work, and that "IvanEComposer" owns the copyrights to these photos. These claims seem highly unlikely to be true.--Smerus (talk) 07:14, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - As someone who has been hanging around Bands/Musicians AfD discussions for a long time, I have noticed a recent uptick in claims of racism or other cultural prejudice when voters argue that someone is non-notable due to lack of coverage. Here are some recent examples: 1, 2. One possible response is to point out that (if true) this problem happens before Wikipedia and Wikipedia is not equipped to solve it. And personally, I also find it very rude to blame hideous social problems for your favorite musician's lack of fame and fortune. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 13:38, 3 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per OP: I have followed this a bit and concur with Smerus's assessment. Could probably agree with a return to draft space (without leaving links from mainspace), if the dedicated editor (User:MahlerLover) would agree with keeping to what more experienced users say to them, would keep to the applicable guidance, and defer from TL;DR rhetoric on racism and whatnot. But that might be just some WP:ROPE, assessing behaviour up to this point. --Francis Schonken (talk) 07:18, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm just not seeing where the notability is – and that has absolutely nothing to do with race as Mahlerlover has tried to imply. The hard truth is: Wikipedia is a reflection of society, not the other way around. If the media and coverage is truly "biased" in their output and coverage against the composer in question then there's nothing we can do about that as a tertiary source and neutral encyclopedia. Either way, having an article rejected from AFC twice and then moving it to the mainspace despite that does not help the case. Aza24 (talk) 07:53, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, per lack of reliable sources. —Cote d&#39;Azur (talk) 07:58, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment – There was another related discussion at Articles for deletion/Ivan E. Rodriguez. I notice that the creator, MahlerLover, doesn't seem to have been notified. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:55, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * In fact I posted a link to this AfD proposal in the discussion launched by User:Mahlerlover on the WProect composers page. Interestingly, the editor of the deleted article to which Michael Bednarek refers was "IvanEComposer" - fancy that for a coincidence!--Smerus (talk) 12:24, 2 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per lack of reliable sources and unclear notability. I do agree wtih Francis Schonken about possibly moving it back to draftspace if I was made to believe it would receive proper attention there. The best argument for that is probably that the subject is quite young, and better sources notability/verifiability could be available in the future. But is it worth it to hold the article in draftspace until then? I don't know. Noahfgodard (talk) 16:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. The only question here is whether WP:BIO is met when read alongside WP:NMUSIC. As I see it, there is nothing in the article as it stands to demonstrate significant coverage in reliable sources. Most of those cited are neither "substantial" and few if any are independent or secondary sources. Unless some evidence to the contrary can be shown, there is really no dispute. —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:59, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Puerto Rico-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:23, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:23, 3 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - He is good at what he does, but this article is clearly an attempted resume, which he has either written himself or forwarded to a supporter for entry into Wikepdia, and for at least the third time. His achievements are within an esoteric community, hence the shortage of significant and reliable media coverage and the article's dependence on primary industry listings. The article also exaggerates his accomplishments, as the "Awards" are actually grants and contest entries. For example, the "ASCAP Leonard Bernstein Award" is a small scholarship that is given to multiple entrants every year. He deserves to be noticed by his professional peers, but qualifying for Wikipedia is a different process. It may happen in his future. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 13:30, 3 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.