Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ivan Zagni


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 12:26, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Ivan Zagni

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Have given this quite a bit of WP:BEFORE, but I find that ultimately he fails WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO and WP:COMPOSER.  Captain Screebo Parley! 14:13, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 20:25, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

A radio documentary about Zagni's career was commissioned by New Zealand state broadcaster Radio New Zealand. He has substantial entries on AMG and Discogs, and on the website of NZ composers organisation SOUNZ. He co-wrote a UK #38 chart song and played in groups with Elton Dean, Mike Patto and Aynsley Dunbar. In New Zealand he recorded with Blam Blam Blam, one of the leading post-punk groups of the era, and then an album with Blams founder Don McGlashan on Propeller Records, the key label of that time. His groups Big Sideways and Avant Garage included many significant Auckland musicians and led to founding of important label Rattle Records. He was later the inaugural composer in residence for one of New Zealand's most significant orchestras, the Auckland Philharmonia. Enough? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk • contribs) 09:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. - gadfium  09:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. - gadfium  09:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - The liberal use of "important" and "significant" by User:Footnote73 in the above comment would appear to be a bit too close to WP:Weasel. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 10:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep a few minutes googling has found potential reliable sources including those listed here and reference to a performance of one of his compositions here . Article does need improvement which I would prefer to leave to someone more familiar with jazz/avant-garde works than myself. Daveosaurus (talk) 11:03, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: The subject has certainly worked with a lot of notable people. I'm not sure the Radio New Zealand doco counts, since there isn't a reference for it. The question is has the subject "received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject"? Stuartyeates (talk) 20:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Stuartyeates, I've improved the info on the Radio NZ doco. Any (print) broadcast listings guide from the time would verify broadcast dates but I'm sure we don't need to go to that length. Daveosaurus has found a pretty good archive of "significant cover in reliable sources that are independent..." including plenty of articles by "significant" writers in "important" newspapers. Footnote73 (talk) 09:33, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete By my count we have two independent reliable sources solely about him, (1) an entry in "Bibliography of New Zealand Compositions" which is duplicated at http://sounz.org.nz/contributor/composer/1104 and (2) http://www.allmusic.com/artist/ivan-zagni-p140712/biography. There's also a radio doco of uncertain length of which he was the focus. There is also two books which mention him (and almost certainly many more music books which mention him in passing, given that he appears to have been a session musician with pretty much everyone). That's just not in depth coverage for me. Stuartyeates (talk) 10:30, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep The Allmusic biography is a pretty lengthy one, even by their standards, and more coverage is available (shown by User:Daveosaurus above). The radio documentary may be lacking sources, but if it exists then it helps to show that the subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, thus it also meets the inclusion criteria set out at WP:MUSIC. --sparkl!sm hey! 08:38, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Weak keep for the following reasons: Most of Zagni's active period was in the 1980's and early 1990's - to find information in this period requires a reasonable search knowledge and no one commenting is from the music field, there is a lot of information about him as a composer and guitarist in his own right as well as an active musician with various bands (but the sources are not reliable enough in themselves, and he has a file at TePapa which I will try to access. I suggest someone from the NZ music project may wish to comment NealeFamily (talk) 09:17, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   05:34, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment yes, this person seems to be on the periphery of a lot of projects with apparently more notable people (sorry not a NZ music expert in the least), but are they notable in their own right? I wasn't really convinced (and still doubt) that they have received significant in-depth coverage in reliable secondary sources, a lot of the mentions are like "played with XYZ", almost like a session musician would be listed.  Captain Screebo Parley! 10:31, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.