Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ivy League Men's Basketball Champions


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Will move to Ivy League men's basketball. (non-admin closure) + (talk) 15:28, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Ivy League Men's Basketball Champions

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:LISTN. A list of a conference's men's basketball champions does not need to be stand-alone. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:25, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:25, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Merge with Ivy League Men's Basketball Tournament. That's where this information belongs.Rlendog (talk) 19:11, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge per above. The two articles are both quite short, so splitting the two isn't required. Patar knight - chat/contributions 19:41, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment. It should be clarified here that the Ivy League didn't have a basketball tournament until this year, while the list of men's basketball champions should be completed back to the formal creation of the league for basketball in 1956.  (We already have a separate article for the Eastern Intercollegiate Basketball League that preceded it.)   So this list of champions needs to be completed, and won't be as short as it looks now.  If it is going to be merged with an article about the new tournament, it still seems to me that the title of this article, Ivy League Men's Basketball Champions, would be the more appropriate one, since the vast bulk of the merged article's content will not be about the tournament. So I think we should keep this article; editors can consider merging Ivy League Men's Basketball Tournament into this one. --Arxiloxos (talk) 01:07, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Disagree. The article Ivy League Men's Basketball Tournament is one of a series of all NCAA Division I men's basketball conference tournaments, all on NCAA men's college basketball tournament navbox. The actual tournament itself is notable but the list of champions is secondary and should be merged into the parent article. Most, if not all, of the other conference tournament articles are formatted this way and it makes a lot more sense IMO. Jrcla2 (talk)
 * What parent article? Where would you put this? It won't fit very well in the existing 109,651-byte Ivy League article, especially not when the list of 60 years of champions is completed. I suppose we could rename this article to Ivy League men's basketball on the model of Pac-12 Conference men's basketball--the Pac-12 being another conference that long avoided the post-season tournament, and another article that's essentially a list of season champions. See also List of Big Ten Conference men's basketball regular season champions, for another conference that didn't use a tournament for many years. But I have to say, it's strange to me to think the league tournament is notable but the league champions somehow aren't, given that the point of the tournaments is to identify the champion, and tons of sports coverage every year is devoted to league championships. --Arxiloxos (talk) 03:38, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Ivy League Men's Basketball Tournament is the parent article. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:40, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, that just doesn't fit here. Based on the precedents from the Pac-12 and Big Ten noted above, this article should be kept; rename is optional. --Arxiloxos (talk) 03:48, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It does fit though. Merging this content into the tournament article makes sense. It can easily be divided into two sections: the first is the pre-Ivy League Tournament era of automatic regular season qualifiers, then the second section is the tournament winners. It keeps all historical NCAA Tournament berth teams in context to one another, and more importantly, follows almost every other conference in existence except for the two you cherry-picked. Jrcla2 (talk) 04:01, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Not cherry-picked; these 3 leagues have something in common that explains why these articles are warranted. As noted at Pac-12 Conference Men's Basketball Tournament: "By the 1985–86 season, the Pac-10 was one of three remaining conferences that gave their automatic NCAA tournament bid to the regular season round-robin champion. The other two conferences were the Ivy League and the Big Ten Conference."  These are the three leagues that went the longest without a tournament, and for which lists of the regular season champions are particularly significant.  For the Ivy League, we currently have zero years of tournament history versus 60 years of regular season championships.  Ivy League Men's Basketball Tournament is just not a very descriptive title for that content.
 * At any rate, it seems we already have a consensus that this is really a merge discussion rather than one about deletion, so I will try not to belabor the subject further. --Arxiloxos (talk) 05:28, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Move to Ivy League men's basketball. It doesn't make sense to combine past champions that were not from a tournament into Ivy League Men's Basketball Tournament.  It's not a WP:COATRACK for all champions, when the title is for the tournament.  Theres ample sources for "Ivy League men's basketball" to meet WP:GNG, even if WP sports editors  are better at creating lists than writing prose.  Still, there is WP:NODEADLINE to complete the article.—Bagumba (talk) 05:46, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Move per Bagumba. This just makes sense. Jacona (talk) 14:27, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Move/Rename to Ivy League men's basketball, absolutely. Ivy League Men's Basketball Tournament is fine as a separate article. Smmurphy(Talk) 16:41, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 08:36, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Move per above. Agreed the Tournament article should be separate - they are not the same thing. Smartyllama (talk) 19:35, 17 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.