Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Józef Biss


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There's reasonable arguments on both sides here. Some source material has been provided; it appears to be neither strong enough to render the "delete" arguments inconsequential, nor poor enough to obviate the "keep"s. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:14, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Józef Biss

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

While there is some coverage of this individual, this is almost all from a single source. This could be considered a case of WP:BIO1E, but does not meet GNG.  Onel 5969  TT me 13:53, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:01, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:01, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:01, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:02, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose. First, the nominator for deletion blanked the article altogether with the edit summary redirect to only incident which he is notorious for, instead redirecting it to Al Columbia, who is patently not related to the article nor to Pawłokoma. I hope the nominator recognises that error.
 * Referring to the article itself, Biss played a central role in the Pawłokoma massacre, which itself is notable (but which article is a stub). Per WP:BLP1E, the article should be deleted if a person is known for one event, is otherwise WP:LOWPROFILE and his role in the event was minor or tangential. The thing is, the point 3 is not satisfied - he was central to the event.
 * The problem here is not that Biss only has one source that describes him but that there are few people who can read both Polish and Ukrainian, have access to the books and want to expand it. The sources are in fact rather plentiful, just no one bothered to use them yet. The article needs substantial work, but it clearly belongs here, at least for so long as the Pawłokoma article itself is not expanded. If it had been, we could have probably talked about merging, but given the dismal state of the Pawłokoma massacre article (which should be larger), the article should stay. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 14:32, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - Szmendewrowiecki's sources list (The sources are in fact rather plentiful... ) is from… 1800s before Biss was even born and links to entirely different people. - GizzyCatBella  🍁  15:04, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Sources as they appear in the link and that contain something more than simply a mention of the name:
 * Stanisław Kryciński, Przemyśl i Pogórze Przemyskie (2007)
 * Wiesław Józef Wiąk, Struktura organizacyjna Armii Krajowej 1939-1944 (2003)
 * Grzegorz Rąkowski, Ziemia lwowska (2005) - cited in the article
 * Grzegorz Mazur, Konspiracja lwowska, 1939-1945: słownik biograficzny (1997)
 * Dariusz Iwaneczko, Zbigniew Nawrocki (eds.), Rok pierwszy: powstanie i działalność aparatu bezpieczeństwa publicznego na Rzeszowszczyźnie (2005)
 * Konspiracja i opór społeczny w Polsce 1944-1956: słownik biograficzny, vol. 1 and 3 (2002)
 * Bogdan Kobuszewski, Piotr Matusak, Tadeusz Rawski (eds.) Polski Ruch Oporu 1939-1945 (1988)
 * The list may go on, and I've only mentioned the Polish-language sources. Ukrainian-language sources have not even been considered in this list despite my writing in Ukrainian. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 16:03, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The link you posted does not show any of the above. -  GizzyCatBella  🍁  17:42, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * They start with this then this and so on. Anyone can check. -  GizzyCatBella  🍁  17:44, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Google in Canada doesn't work the same way as it does in Poland, or even across users, which I've already seen elsewhere in discussions (Google should know better - Ukrainian Canadians are quite plentiful in Prairie provinces, and among these some speak Ukrainian; though again I can't rule out Google serving different content based on the province you live in). Besides, it's fairly strange that a query in Ukrainian returns you a false positive publication in Dutch (it finds repeated instances of "biss."). But anyway, you've got the titles above, you can search among these. They have each talk a paragraph or two about him, out of which we can make a small but a meaningful entry. As has been said, Ukrainian sources were not considered but that's because Google serves me Polish entries for Ukrainian queries. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 18:23, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Google in Canada doesn't work the same way as it does in Poland.. -  no , the search results for this particular entry are exactly the same in Poland and in Canada. Exactly the same . - GizzyCatBella  🍁  20:12, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Don't be ridiculous. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 20:39, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  No  - your search you show now (in the attached screen shot) is in books section (książki - in Polish), that’s why is different . - GizzyCatBella  🍁  20:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Plus "Przemysl i Pogórze Przemyskie: przewodnik
 * ..przewodnika stanowi Słownik miejscowości zawierający szczegółowe informacje krajoznawcze o wszystkich miejscowościach na omawianym terenie, w tym także nieistniejących. English - the sightseeing guide is a locality dictionary containing detailed sightseeing information about all the villages in the area in question, including non-existent ones
 * The sightseeing guide  is not  a RS for this topic area. Stanisław Kryciński is not a historian (he is an engineer)- GizzyCatBella  🍁  21:06, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You may note that the link at the top of the screenshot is exactly the same as the link I've offered at the very beginning. You may also want to see here for the values of  search parameter.
 * Now, you've cited one book which arguably isn't RS, but you've got six others. Anything about them? Szmenderowiecki (talk) 21:15, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * What are you trying to reference? - GizzyCatBella  🍁  21:17, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * My point is not what we are trying to reference, but that the sources are there. People simply didn't bother to reach them. Since multiple independent and reliable sources talk about him (and I've only taken Polish-language books), it squarely meets WP:GNG. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 21:51, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * No, there are not. Your source number 3 - Grzegorz Rąkowski, Ziemia lwowska (2005) is another tour guide.
 * But lets focus on your source number 2 for now - Wiesław Józef Wiąk, Struktura organizacyjna Armii Krajowej 1939-1944 (2003) - Is this source about Józef Biss? GizzyCatBella  🍁  06:24, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. It doesn't have to be about him, it needs to have WP:SIGCOV content about him. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:21, 27 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep. Biss is notable not only for his genocidal killings of Ukrainian civilians, but also for his extensive banditry after the war. Or, as patriotic Poles call it, anti-communist activities via armed robbery. This was a notorious criminal, a mass murderer, who is discussed extensively in Polish and Ukranian sources.--Erin Vaxx (talk) 16:26, 25 January 2022 (UTC) - globally banned strike
 * User:Erin Vaxx please strike your ethnically based attack and insults.  Volunteer Marek   17:27, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Stifle (talk) 15:29, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. While we are crippled by the poor digitization of Polish sources, and the fact that what is digitized on Google Books is snippet view, I see the following:
 * : a footnote biography of at least several sentences length
 * and indeterminate length and style biography that also appears to be at least several sentences long
 * While this is not a lot, it meets my interpretation of the minimum needed for GNG (at least two independent, reliable sources, which contain WP:SIGCOV-passing content about the subject). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:29, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Per discussion on my Talk. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star   Mississippi  20:09, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete or Merge to Pawłokoma massacre - lacking acceptable sources (refer to ArbCom restrictions ) See talk page for more - This source is the only one meeting sourcing expectations I believe -  GizzyCatBella  🍁  14:27, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @GizzyCatBella What do you think about the sources I found above? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 19:28, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, the only one that’s good by Janusz Kurtyka . GizzyCatBella  🍁  19:37, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * and this one about the massacre. That’s why I believe the merger is fine too.  GizzyCatBella  🍁  19:39, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll dissent. If someone gets two biographies in reliable books, short but still biographies, I think we can have a dedicated article about them. I think that's enough for WP:NBIO. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:02, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Not optimistic that further input is forthcoming, but willing to give it another try for consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star   Mississippi  02:41, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Closing/relisting admin comment: came to my Talk and we had a  conversation about my close. While I stand by my merger close, more discussion is never a bad thing so I have relisted this for further input. Thanks all.  Star   Mississippi  20:13, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Relisting admin comment I'm not going to be the one to close this given I did the first time, but I don't think we're going to get any more input. Thoughts?  Star   Mississippi  03:52, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Star Mississippi Heh. Just leave it to another admin to close, what will happen will happen and it will be good to have another set of eyes... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 11:23, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * It's funny, @WexfordUK just asked at Articles_for_deletion/Mario_Cerrito_(2nd_nomination) whether it was the longest running AfD. I knew it had company but forgot about this one being a week longer. Curious to see how it closes. Star   Mississippi  14:40, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi I did! LOL. WexfordUK (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge per arguments above.  Volunteer Marek   09:13, 26 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.