Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/J. Earl Downs


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. There seems to be a consensus (although not unanimous) that the office of public safety commissioner is not in itself sufficient to push its holders past the notability bar. Downs might also potentially be notable through the WP:GNG, but among those that commented on the sources in the discussion, the feeling seems to be that the references are not substantial enough or reliable enough to pass muster. Lankiveil (speak to me) 12:41, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

J. Earl Downs

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A well-written article; the problem is that there is nothing inherently notable about being elected to public safety commissioner for a medium-sized city. Further fails to meet WP:NPOL as there is no significant, in-depth coverage of the subject in reliable sources, only mentions. Afd was disputed by creator. See also Articles_for_deletion/Don_Jones_(Louisiana_politician). OhNo itsJamie Talk 22:24, 14 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - blogs and lots of family genealogy stuff, not a lot of significant coverage in reliable sources. Doesn't meet the requirements of WP:NPOL or WP:GNG.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 22:41, 14 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. A public safety commissioner is [was then] a city-wide position, no longer in use in Shreveport but still used in a few cities outside the South. In Shreveport and in other cities with the commission form of government, the commissioner exercises both legislative and executive duties, on the city council and as a department head. This position should not be confused with a county commissioner, most of whom were and still are elected by single-member districts. County commissioners are the "legislators" of a county (called parish in Louisiana), with the county judge normally in the role of the "executive" head of the county. In Louisiana, the executive of the parish can be the police jury president, the president of the parish, or a parish "administrator", depending on the structure of the parish government. City commissioners could not be chosen on a district basis, as their administrative duties affected the entire city. African Americans were not then elected to city government in most parts of the South. Soon an outcry in the civil rights movement raised legal challenges to the city commission governments. The public safety commissioner, which Mr. Downs filled for eight years, is equivalent to the mayor in this case. Mr. Downs is also part of a five-member Louisiana political family. He is a pre-Internet figure. Billy Hathorn (talk) 23:02, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Be that as it may, none of those positions are likely to be considered notable by Wikipedia standards. Mayors are not inherently notable (even if we consider the position to be equivalent), CEOs/Directors of regional authorities or agencies are not inherently notable, city-wide administrators are not inherently notable (even for major cities). Subjects do not inherit notability from notable family members (even if that were established). What we need is significant coverage in multiple reliable sources.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 23:07, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. War wizard90 (talk) 00:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. War wizard90 (talk) 00:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. War wizard90 (talk) 00:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - Becoming a public safety commissioner does not a person notable make. The notability criteria in this instance do not appear to have been met.  KDS 4444  Talk  10:02, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Louisiana-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:51, 15 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Public safety commissioner was a significant office in cities under the commission form of municipal government. The commissioner over fire and police and sometimes sanitation was equal to the mayor in most cities under this plan; indeed each commissioner functioned as an administrator and as a sitting member of the city council. Some cities had three commissioner; others like Shreveport five; still others, seven, always an odd number to lessen the likelihood of tie votes on the city council. In some cities the mayor was technically the "commissioner of administration." Shreveport had a pubic safety commissioner from 1938 to 1942, Jimmie Davis, who became governor, first, in 1944. No Shreveport mayor has ever been governor but Sam Caldwell while he was mayor ran for governor and lost in 1944, to eventual winner Davis. Billy Hathorn (talk) 15:36, 19 January 2015 (UTC)In Alexandria, Louisiana, the mayor was also the public safety commissioner under the city commission government, which ended there in 1977. Some medium-sized Midwestern cities still have the commission government.Billy Hathorn (talk) 21:56, 19 January 2015 (UTC) Another point: John McWilliams Ford was mayor of Shreveport for about four years in the prior to 1922 but for 35 years as the commissioner of finance. It was in the later position that he was most noted. Shreveport had separate finance and utilities commissioners; Alexandria had a combined finance and utilities commissioner. All of these officials cited are co-equal to the mayor; or the relationship might be defined as that of an associate justice and a chief justice or by the phrase "first among equals" for the mayor.Billy Hathorn (talk) 02:13, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * No one is participating in the discussion. Some five days have passed since the article was challenged, but there have been no participants.Billy Hathorn (talk) 02:17, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? Four people have commented here. The arguments you've put forward aren't at all based on policy and while you're entitled to your personal opinions, such things are likely to be disregarded by a closing admin. There's not much point discussing those ideas further. Without better quality sourcing to consider, there isn't much more to discuss.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 02:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I see three names in opposition to the article and none in five days.Billy Hathorn (talk) 04:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you mean no participants, or no participants supporting your POV? I'm not trying to be facetious. The discussion will be re-listed if an admin reviews this discussion with a view to closing it and determines there hasn't been adequate participation. But the consensus among everyone but the article creator (you) seems fairly clear at this point.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 06:10, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Public Safety Commissioner is not a position which confers automatic notability upon the office holder as per WP:POLITICIAN. I am not convinced the subject would pass WP:GNG based on the sources provided . --Enos733 (talk) 05:21, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * There still seems to be confusion over what a public safety commissioner is (or in most cases, was), as the office has fallen out of favor with the decline of city commission governments. He was elected citywide (never by district), co-equal to the mayor in that both had equal votes on the legislative city council. In some cities the mayor WAS also the public safety commissioner. In others, the mayor was "commissioner of administration". Here is a public safety commissioner from Birmingham, Alabama, with his own Wikipedia article; his notability went beyond being public safety commissioner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Connor One should not confuse public safety commissioner with public service commissioner, an office still functioning in many states and one that regulates public utilitities and/or oil and natural gas. Billy Hathorn (talk) 02:00, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.