Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/J. H. Putman Public School


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Pinecrest Public School, redirected to Ottawa-Carleton District School Board just after discussion started; Cedarview Middle School, keep; All others, no consensus - consider individual consideration. This is one of the more complex AFDs I have closed, and the result is a little complex but I think is fair. There is no consensus for any immediate straight deletion of any of these articles, however many commented that they should be merged/redirected as appropriate individually. "Consider individual consideration" can mean boldly redirecting/merging these articles, discussing the merging/redirecting of an article on an appropriate talk page, or bringing any of these articles back to AFD individually. Cedarview Middle School stood out strongly from the other nominated articles as highlighted in the discussion, hence why I have given it a different result. No valid reason was actually given in the nomination for deletion of this article, as it does cite sources - a few others did as well but not as strongly. Also note that it was kept in a previous AFD in January 2008. If any user still thinks this article should be deleted, please re-nominate it in a individual AFD. Camaron | Chris (talk) 13:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

J. H. Putman Public School

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This is a group afd. None of these schools are notable. They all fail to cite sources. Some of them are only one or two sentences. Delete GreenJoe 16:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.   --  Double Blue  (Talk) 16:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions.   --  Double Blue  (Talk) 16:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Redirect all to List of English public schools in Ottawa. Current practice for schools which are deemed non-notable is to redirect them to an appropriate target, such as a list of schools or the article on the school board that oversees them, not to delete. Bearcat (talk) 16:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It is difficult to consider all these schools at once. Some are very short and already had merge-school tags on them, one I'd redirected before this AfD and, as of this time has not been tagged for this AfD, some are of reasonable length and include references. My suggestion is to merge those with merge tags to their district or locality, keep and tag appropriately the remainder. Double Blue  (Talk) 17:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep all - each school deserves individual consideration which they cannot get in a mass nomination. Non-notable elementary schools should, in any case, be merged and redirected tot eh district. TerriersFan (talk) 17:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep all - School don't often get deleted from an Afd. There is to many to investigate there in one go, especially when you consider each school normally has several other schools with exactly the same name somewhere else in the world. They are not tagged with at least not all of them and Pinecrest_Public_School does not even have Afd tag on it. Raise the issue with the WikiProject_Schools and the WikiProject_Canada projects first.
 * High schools typically survive AFDs. Elementary schools generally don't. Bearcat (talk) 20:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with TerriersFan and SunCreator that these articles deserve individual consideration, not bundling. In my view—after re-reading the examples at WP:BUNDLE—this is an inappropriate use of bundling at an AfD. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 18:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * strong keep all &mdash; someone is using these articles to try to promote an agenda, rather than considering them in their own right. Schools are notable as public institutions, many of these articles do have a significant amount of content, and they have been take up by other Wiki projects.  Please let's consider the articles (and all the work that's gone into them) in their own right, and not use them to try to prove a point. David (talk) 11:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (untrue &mdash; Fisher Park Public School, for example, does cite sources, and did so long before the AFD. David (talk) 12:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC))
 * Prove that they are notable. They aren't, and there isn't anything anywhere that says they are. GreenJoe 16:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You have not helped your case by showing a certain insouciance in forming your nomination. You stated "They all fail to cite sources." Let's take Cedarview Middle School, for example, which clearly cites sources that comfortably pass WP:N. TerriersFan (talk) 18:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And contrary to GreenJoe's blanket claim, some of the articles are fairly lengthy and well written. In any case, I'd argue that as large and expensive public institutions, schools are notable by default &mdash; at least, the WikiProjects seem to think so, and that seems to be the consensus here so far as well. David (talk) 19:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The consensus from many AfDs is that high schools are notable but elementary/middle schools are usually not. However, each school article should be considered on its merits since some elementary/middle schools are notable and those can only be identified if there is an evaluation of the sources available on a case by case basis. TerriersFan (talk) 19:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Some people argued the same thing about airports a few years ago, especially if they didn't have airline service. Now, fortunately, it's no longer an issue &mdash; even a tiny grass strip with no airline service, buildings or fence is considered notable by default, since (as the cliche goes) Wikipedia isn't running out of paper. David (talk) 20:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Relist any articles you have a specific problem with, but this type of a nomination is much more trouble than its worth, especially given the contention regarding this particular subject.  Coccyx Bloccyx (talk) 21:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep all under the snowball cluse: for the same reasons that schools are ineligible for speedy deletion, they require individual consideration. Also most elementary school AFD's will result in keep or merge closure so this would become procedurally untenable.  Jerry   talk ¤ count/logs 02:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep per Jerry. The schools that are truly non-notable can be redirected to an appropriate target. I find deletion en masse distasteful, and good objections have been raised above. -- Irixman (t) (m) 03:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Close this and continue merging, but i am not sure this was a totally wrong combined nomination---they are all pretty similar, and all from the same area. I'd have done the primary and secondary schools in separate groups, going school district by school district, if for some reason I didnt want to merge and redirect, or if for some reason that were opposed. Terries Fan in my opinion has the present consensus correct. DGG (talk) 20:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.   --  Double Blue  (Talk) 16:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions.   --  Double Blue  (Talk) 16:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Redirect all to List of English public schools in Ottawa. Current practice for schools which are deemed non-notable is to redirect them to an appropriate target, such as a list of schools or the article on the school board that oversees them, not to delete. Bearcat (talk) 16:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It is difficult to consider all these schools at once. Some are very short and already had merge-school tags on them, one I'd redirected before this AfD and, as of this time has not been tagged for this AfD, some are of reasonable length and include references. My suggestion is to merge those with merge tags to their district or locality, keep and tag appropriately the remainder. Double Blue  (Talk) 17:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep all - each school deserves individual consideration which they cannot get in a mass nomination. Non-notable elementary schools should, in any case, be merged and redirected tot eh district. TerriersFan (talk) 17:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep all - School don't often get deleted from an Afd. There is to many to investigate there in one go, especially when you consider each school normally has several other schools with exactly the same name somewhere else in the world. They are not tagged with at least not all of them and Pinecrest_Public_School does not even have Afd tag on it. Raise the issue with the WikiProject_Schools and the WikiProject_Canada projects first.
 * High schools typically survive AFDs. Elementary schools generally don't. Bearcat (talk) 20:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with TerriersFan and SunCreator that these articles deserve individual consideration, not bundling. In my view—after re-reading the examples at WP:BUNDLE—this is an inappropriate use of bundling at an AfD. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 18:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * strong keep all &mdash; someone is using these articles to try to promote an agenda, rather than considering them in their own right. Schools are notable as public institutions, many of these articles do have a significant amount of content, and they have been take up by other Wiki projects.  Please let's consider the articles (and all the work that's gone into them) in their own right, and not use them to try to prove a point. David (talk) 11:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (untrue &mdash; Fisher Park Public School, for example, does cite sources, and did so long before the AFD. David (talk) 12:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC))
 * Prove that they are notable. They aren't, and there isn't anything anywhere that says they are. GreenJoe 16:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You have not helped your case by showing a certain insouciance in forming your nomination. You stated "They all fail to cite sources." Let's take Cedarview Middle School, for example, which clearly cites sources that comfortably pass WP:N. TerriersFan (talk) 18:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And contrary to GreenJoe's blanket claim, some of the articles are fairly lengthy and well written. In any case, I'd argue that as large and expensive public institutions, schools are notable by default &mdash; at least, the WikiProjects seem to think so, and that seems to be the consensus here so far as well. David (talk) 19:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The consensus from many AfDs is that high schools are notable but elementary/middle schools are usually not. However, each school article should be considered on its merits since some elementary/middle schools are notable and those can only be identified if there is an evaluation of the sources available on a case by case basis. TerriersFan (talk) 19:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Some people argued the same thing about airports a few years ago, especially if they didn't have airline service. Now, fortunately, it's no longer an issue &mdash; even a tiny grass strip with no airline service, buildings or fence is considered notable by default, since (as the cliche goes) Wikipedia isn't running out of paper. David (talk) 20:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Relist any articles you have a specific problem with, but this type of a nomination is much more trouble than its worth, especially given the contention regarding this particular subject.  Coccyx Bloccyx (talk) 21:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep all under the snowball cluse: for the same reasons that schools are ineligible for speedy deletion, they require individual consideration. Also most elementary school AFD's will result in keep or merge closure so this would become procedurally untenable.  Jerry   talk ¤ count/logs 02:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep per Jerry. The schools that are truly non-notable can be redirected to an appropriate target. I find deletion en masse distasteful, and good objections have been raised above. -- Irixman (t) (m) 03:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Close this and continue merging, but i am not sure this was a totally wrong combined nomination---they are all pretty similar, and all from the same area. I'd have done the primary and secondary schools in separate groups, going school district by school district, if for some reason I didnt want to merge and redirect, or if for some reason that were opposed. Terries Fan in my opinion has the present consensus correct. DGG (talk) 20:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep per Jerry. The schools that are truly non-notable can be redirected to an appropriate target. I find deletion en masse distasteful, and good objections have been raised above. -- Irixman (t) (m) 03:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Close this and continue merging, but i am not sure this was a totally wrong combined nomination---they are all pretty similar, and all from the same area. I'd have done the primary and secondary schools in separate groups, going school district by school district, if for some reason I didnt want to merge and redirect, or if for some reason that were opposed. Terries Fan in my opinion has the present consensus correct. DGG (talk) 20:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.