Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/J. T. Alley


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. The delete commentators say that he doesn't have multiple, reliable sources backing him up, the keep commentators say he doesn't, but that doesn't matter due to his status. His status does not fall into one of the categories of "people excluded from the general notability guideline", and this is thus irrelevant; Doctor Blofeld notes that "I don't see much difference between this and a lot of US biographies on minor sportspeople and local governors", and I don't either, but until we have an individualised exception from WP:N for police chiefs, that argument doesn't hold a lot of weight. Ironholds (talk) 10:14, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

J. T. Alley

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No claim to notability is given in the intro other than "police chief of Lubbock, Texas." Does every police chief need an article? Jsharpminor (talk) 23:06, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. Sourcing is two obituaries (which say nice things, as obituaries tend to, but aren't substantial news coverage), a record of death, and a dead link to what looks to have been photographs. While a police chief of a town like Lubbock runs a decent chance of having notability, I'm simply not able to find any sources supporting that possibility in this particular case. All the news mentions I can find are just that - mentions, in the style of "police chief Alley said [blah blah] about case [blah]" - and not substantial coverage. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 00:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 01:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - No real assertion of notability (police chief of Lubbock is not enough), and coverage in reliable sources is insufficient to support retaining an article. cmadler (talk) 09:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete As per above, the obits and sourcing available does not meet WP:BIO/WP:GNG, and no indication this meets WP:N any other way. Novaseminary (talk) 16:14, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak keep per "He was one of the founders as well as a President of the Texas Police Chiefs' Association." A state police association should be notable, even if not every chief is. I don't see much difference between this and a lot of US biographies on minor sportspeople and local governors. I do sort of frown against the overfocus on less known biographies in the US when we are missing much more notable biographies from countries outside the Anglosphere but I think this does have some claim.♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:21, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep Page is already well written with some citations. Has several things which make him notable enough to warrant not deleting. MadCow257 (talk) 20:11, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep Sourced and sourcable to more that just obituaries. Was respected and oft-quoted in his field. Made major contributions to Texas and law enforcement.   Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:29, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment But which sources are sufficient to meet WP:BASIC? Is it just you feeling he is notable, or do you think the subject meets WPs notability criteria? Novaseminary (talk) 03:28, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete, although it is a marginal case. J. T. Alley's long service is interesting, and certainly it would be appropriate to mention this individual in the Lubbock, Texas article, an article about the Lubbock Police Department, or in a list of presidents of the Texas Police Chiefs' Association. But I just ran through a Google Newspapers search on Alley's name during his term as chief of police, and there were only nine mentions, all having to do with flags on uniforms. Doesn't seem to meet the notability threshold. Neutralitytalk 17:27, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * weak Keep Police chiefs in large cities have always done sufficiently controversial things that they are notable--it goes with the job. . Lubbock is a small city (220,000) but home to as very large college (Texas Tech,)--a factor which always increases the police activity and significance. There are at any rate enough sources for WP:GNG. Normally, round here, people thing meeting the GNG settles the issue, but WP:LOCAL is one of the exceptions that is considered to over-ride it in a negative direction. I can see the logic of that--and indeed things that fall under LOCAL are where I tend to be a deletionist. But the restriction is really arbitrary and amounts entirely to a judgement call in each case--if we want to exclude an article like this, we say the importance & sources are only local; if we want to include it, we say they're wider because of one or another reason. I could construct an argument that would convince myself either way on this one.    DGG ( talk ) 18:31, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I also just noticed "President of the Texas Police Chiefs' Association". Statewide chief office in the profession is notable, for any profession.  DGG ( talk ) 22:47, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment. People seem to be confused - the Texas Police Chiefs' Association is a professional association, not a government agency. There are a very large number of professional societies and associations in each state. In Texas there must be at least 300 or more. There is no reason to believe that everyone who serves a one- or two-year term of any one of these is per se notable Neutralitytalk 19:44, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * To further Neutrality's point, this group is not covered in WP, and the only mention of it on WP is in this article. Of course, maybe the group is notable and WP is lacking. But there is no reason to believe that there is any consensus that being the head of this group nowehre else mentioned on WP conveys automatic, inherent notability on WP. Novaseminary (talk) 04:10, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep by author. Notability (statewide president of Police Chiefs Association) and self-evident. Article well-written. Billy Hathorn (talk)
 * Comment Well-written, says the creator. But where are the RSs? Every flavor of N requires RSs or very good reason to believe they exist. What guideline does this meet? Novaseminary (talk) 04:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete for lack of independent reliable sources establishing notability. I tried a Google search, but I couldn't find any mention outside Lubbock and environs (except for the AP news story printed in the Charleston, SC News and Courier listing the subject as one of many advocating for the right of policemen to wear US flags on their uniforms).   Rich wales (talk · contribs) 05:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.