Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jabr bin Muhammed Al Thani


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There is a consensus to delete here, and also that WP:V has not been met. Black Kite (talk) 19:56, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Jabr bin Muhammed Al Thani

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Only a single reference to a genealogical website, thus notability is not established. Searches for references in both Arabic and English have yielded absolutely nothing on this subject. Elspamo4 (talk) 06:10, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:38, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:38, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - minor royals of minor nations are not really notable by themselves. Virtually all of the information in the stub is utterly mundane: every man in Islamic countries studies the Koran, has a few kids, and assists the emir. Bearian (talk) 20:43, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 15:18, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:55, 6 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - member of royal family who played a role in establishing Qatar as a nation. Hmmm, I'm not aware of what a "minor nation" is. Is the definition something like "non-white country I don't care about"? —Мандичка YO 😜 08:09, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. Our problem, of course, is that we have no sources which confirm he was any more than one of several sons of a ruler and himself had sons who were notable. If he was indeed significant in the establishment of modern Qatar then of course he's notable, but we do need some proof. Even Arabic Wikipedia doesn't have any more than we have. However, given he was the son of Qatar's ruler and we usually keep articles on the children of monarchs I'll err on the side of keeping and hope someone (probably someone who reads Arabic) can find some more about him. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:05, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - Indeed, I too have never heard of a 'minor nation'. Even if such a nation were to exist, this wouldn't undermine the notability of its associated topics. Necrothesp, I can't find anything purporting Jabr's importance in any of my books on Qatar. In the comprehensive book The Creation of Qatar by Rosemarie Zahlan, Muhammad's three sons are mentioned as such: Qasim (emir of Qatar), Ahmad (governor of Doha). Jabr's name is mentioned but with no particular allusion to his significance. Likewise, in Jassim our leader, founder of Qatar by Mohammed Althani, Muhammad's other two sons are mentioned throughout the book with no reference at all to Jabr. The same exact theme appears in every book I've searched (I own about 10 books on Qatar's history). I have searched his name in Arabic in countless variations and haven't found any reliable sources on Jabr. That's not to say he definitely doesn't have any notability, but I don't think we will be able to establish any such notability. Elspamo4 (talk) 17:12, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Question Is there a notability guideline or common outcomes page for royalty? I thought I'd seen one before, but a quick search didn't turn one up. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 19:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Never mind. linked to it in his post.  Royalty can be an exception to the rule that notability is not inherited.  The article claims that the subject is a "senior member" of the royal family - how senior, exactly, is he?  Does he fall under that exception?  I believe the rules of succession and calculations of seniority are generally different in the Middle East than in Europe, but I'm afraid I'm a bit short on the details. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 19:56, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Qatar was a British Protectorate until 1971, during this person's adult life. He is "minor" because his nation was still very small and not yet sovereign, not because of the size of the country, nor the color of his skin, nor his religion, nor any bias on my part. Bearian (talk) 20:43, 10 July 2015 (UTC) , do you have any substantive reasons to keep this article?  This subject was a member of a non-sovereign ruling house, whose article is lacking sourcing, and has minimum content. Bearian (talk) 20:59, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 15:17, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Based on Elspamo4's extensive search that does not bring enough sources to establish notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:21, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I came under extreme abuse early on in my career as a sysop for creating Palestinian law. Bearian (talk) 19:12, 13 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:V, lack of reliable sources. Royalty or not, if he was indeed "influential in making Qatar a stable country" he sounds notable enough, but notability is not the issue here, it's verifiability, and a self-published genealogy website isn't enough for that.  Sandstein   17:24, 21 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.