Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jack (webcomic) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Withdrawn. The awards don't do much for me notability wise, but between the one news article and this review I think it just about does it source-wise. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:57, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Jack (webcomic)
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I'll just copy what I said at GAR:

First of all, it is very lacking in secondary sources. Nearly every source is to the strip itself. And of the sources that aren't:


 * This site is a retailer that sells the comic — not a reliable source.
 * This and this are other people's webcomics, only verifying that those two comics (which are not notable in their own right) gave a shout out to Jack.

The other sources are the artist's VCL gallery, and listings from the Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards and Ursa Major awards. There is years of consensus saying that Ursa Major and Web Cartoonists' Choice are not enough for WP:WEB — see among others, Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(web)/Archive_08, Articles_for_deletion/Dan_and_Mab's_Furry_Adventures, Articles for deletion/Sabrina Online (2nd nomination) — these discussions have all shown a well established consensus that WCCA is not enough to meet WP:WEB. And given that Ursa Major Awards' article was AFD'd 2 years ago, I'd say it's not a notable award either. The previous AFD from 2010 resulted in "keep" due to everyone clamoring that WCCA was notable, but it's still quite obvious through the other AFDs listed here that WCCA is not enough to satisfy WP:WEB. Furthermore, the last AFD did not acknowledge the utter lack of reliable sources; even if something meets WP:WEB, it can still fail WP:GNG due to a lack of sources.

Even back in 2007, the nomination was called into question ("I'm unsure how this has got to GA - it is completely lacking in reliable sources and the referencing is thin - largely references to awards sites and the comic itself. This is particularly noticeable in the themes and reception sections which should be heavily referenced to reliable third party sources and they aren't."), but nothing ever came of it.

I know there's a shiny green circle with an X on it, but as I've proven above, the pass to GA was very off base. The same thing happened with Zig Zag (character) about 4 years ago — it had a fishy GA and was promptly AFD'd without reassessing the GA first. The awards are not notable per WP:WEB. I looked all over, trying various strings such as "Jack + webcomic", "Jack + David Hopkins" and couldn't find any reliable sources.

tl;dr: This webcomic is not notable, the GA was b0rked, and this webcomic's awards are not notable. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:05, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - After going through the available references, I have to agree with the nominator. Most links are to the website of the comic, and the awards are given by fan sites, or are given by very minor, non-notable groups.  I was unable to find good references trying several google searches.-- Stv  Fett erly  (Edits)  12:07, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I just did a quick search ("Jack" + "David Hopkins" + "Grim Reaper") and found this news article, which I see has been republished in multiple other newspapers.    Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 14:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Webcomics-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 15:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep -- Look, it's not that WCCA and Ursa Major Awards don't count, it's that neither of these awards by themselves satisfy WP:WEB. Together, with the news article, they certainly count as reliable sources that do the job just fine. Veled (talk) 19:41, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Additional -- This isn't the first time I've pointed out that you've already tried to nominate this article for deletion, nor the first time that you've done so despite the decision last time resulting in a keep. Remember that WP:IDONTLIKEIT is NOT grounds for deletion. Veled (talk) 19:41, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not WP:IDONTLIKEIT at all. It's a consensus from past several AFDs that WCCA and Ursa Major are not enough to satisfy WP:WEB. Other users made that decision per consensus, not me. The article is decent, but we need multiple sources and that's just one. You really seem to have a vendetta against me, and a desire to fight every webcomic AFD to the death. Funny how, until I started AFD'ing them, you'd barely touched the project in years, and now you're coming out of the woodwork... Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem is that you go on deletion and "aggressive merge" sprees, which get other editors riled up, especially when they only find out after the articles are deleted. Last Res0rt and The Whiteboard disappeared this week, with no notification to WikiProject Furry, which had these articles tagged. I asked you to for such notification just a few months ago. You just redirected another article to this very article which you seek to delete, without making any attempt to discuss the article beforehand, merge content from that article into this article, or notify editors here or in its WikiProjects that it would effectively be deleted as well. The only way anyone would know is if they had that specific article watchlisted. Part of the reason we have WikiProjects is to prevent editors having to do that if they want to be aware of issues which could affect the project, like the loss of articles - especially a GA. GreenReaper (talk) 21:53, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice your notification. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 22:05, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment seeing Paul Erik's quick search above of news sources, I tried a Google Scholar search for "David Hopkins jack webcomic" and found only one mention in The Grim Reaper, Working Stiff: The Man, the Myth, the Everyday, footnote 4 on page 13: "webcomics like JACK by David Hopkins ... this simply serves as an abbreviated list of those instances which are most familiar to the widest audience.". Finding nothing more, I did notice a long review by Larry Cruz at  who described it as "one of the most awful comics in history", "awful", "crap", "epic repulsiveness", and so forth (I only scanned the review). That site's author appears to be an independent reviewer of webcomics, and is mentioned here as a way to find webcomics, and several wikipedia webcomic articles use his reviews for references. -84user (talk) 00:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What makes Webcomic Overlook reliable? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:27, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not claiming anything about Webcomic Overlook's reliability, other than he appears to be a bona fide independent reviewer of webcomics. I have no reason to believe he is making up the existence of the comic, which he also mentions here when explaining the difficulty of finding another comic named Jack ("hard to find on Google, given the prominence of David Hopkins’ Jack"). -84user (talk) 00:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Weak keep anything called "Jack" is going to be a real chore to find sources for, but the News Tribune article found by Paul Erik above looks good. That plus two minor awards and a (fan made) video game leads me to believe this just passes the notability bar, though any one of those alone wouldn't be enough. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  00:52, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.