Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jadwiga Szubartowicz


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of Polish supercentenarians. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:12, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Jadwiga Szubartowicz

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Subject fails WP:BLP1E. No evidence of any claim to notability or coverage not based more or less exclusively on the subject's age (111). If this were the oldest person in the world I'd probably consider that as notable. But every country has an oldest person and there is a rather high turnover rate to that title. Additionally it just is not that unusual anymore for people to live past 100, even well past. And lastly if being the oldest person in a given country is enough to ring the N bell then we are opening the flood gates to a potential wave of similar 1E articles. See also the discussion on the article talk page. Ad Orientem (talk) 00:48, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 04:40, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 04:40, 21 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. Unless there is some additional evidence of notability, independent of age, then I do not consider this article to meet WP:N. There are at least 193 countries in the world, all of which have an oldest living citizen and an oldest ever citizen (in most cases a different person), so you're already looking at around 400 articles minimum. Each time one of the first group dies there is a new person immediately becomes the oldest living - on average probably that's one per country every 1-2 years - an additional ~100 articles per year. Because life expectancy for men is lower, you can double the previous figures - now we're at about 800 articles, growing by about 200 per year. At this point we haven't even considered dual citizenships, territorial changes, people moving and people who were the oldest living at some previous point but who died before an article was created. For example, the oldest person born in what is now Poland, August Holtz, was born in the German Empire and died in the USA aged 115 in 1986. Jadwiga Szubartowicz wasn't even the oldest living Polish-born person - that is Yisrael Kristal (age 113) who is living in Israel. Being the oldest person who was born in a country and died in the same country or being, at some point, the oldest person born in a country who is still living in that country (based on various possible definitions of what constitutes the same country in many cases - there are almost no countries whose borders and political status have remained unchanged for 100-120 years) are not, to my mind at least, claims that demonstrate notability for the purposes of an international non-specialist encyclopaedia. Thryduulf (talk) 11:54, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of oldest people by country. Not enough here for a standalone article. The guidelines at WP:WOP say " A subject whose biography is based on only one or two reliable sources establishing notability may belong on a list, rather than in a stand-alone biography, unless these sources provide significant details beyond longevity." She doesn't have the notability of someone like the above mentioned Yisrael Kristal who as well as being the oldest man in the world is also the oldest Holocaust survivor.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:35, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect The 1E rationale as to a stand-alone article is spot on. Since there's an oldest people by country page and she appears there, a A redirect to that article List of Polish supercentenarians seems appropriate. David in DC (talk) 14:00, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of Polish supercentenarians, per CommanderLinx below, does seem a more appropriate target for the redirect. David in DC (talk) 14:03, 24 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Weak keep or Redirect. There's referenced, substantial text here, but it borders on WP:BLP1E territory.  I see no need to force this to be a redlink, I'm not offended by its existence, but redirecting to the oldest people by country article is also OK.  -- Jayron 32 15:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect per the rationale above. Stormy clouds (talk) 16:39, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * @, &  The problem with a redirect is that she is not on the target list anymore. The lady has died. (Memory eternal) -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:16, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm cool with deleting it, but I think there's still a list on that page she's still on. There are a couple of lists on the page. She's under oldest by country for Poland. She's just not on oldest living by country. These World's Oldest People pages are pretty wacky. David in DC (talk) 04:43, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, as the oldest ever Pole who didn't emigrate, her death doesn't affect her entry on the list. Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:03, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to List of Polish supercentenarians where she is appropriately listed per above arguments. Seems like a better redirect target. CommanderLinx (talk) 06:14, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect She's only notable for age. 100.40.125.198 (talk) 12:48, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Please see Jeanne Calment. -A la d   insane   (Channel 2)  14:45, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete The coverage does not appear to be sustained or deep enough to meet the requirements of WP:N. Anything of encyclopedic value here can be mentioned on one of the many longevity-related lists on Wikipedia. Canadian   Paul  12:09, 27 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.