Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jaime Augusto Zobel


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:09, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Jaime Augusto Zobel

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Promotional article, fails WP:ANYBIO. While the company he heads may be notable, he is not. If and when he gets coverage, this article can be re-created with real sources, not press releases. Coretheapple (talk) 21:08, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  21:11, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  21:12, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * STRONG KEEP- He is notable. There probably isn't a single Filipino who doesn't knows who he is. --Jondel (talk) 06:40, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd like to prove that statement false. Not everyone knows who he is.  People may know about the ayala malls but not everyone knows that "ayala" is actually a family name.  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 05:38, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * That may be, but the coverage on him is too skimpy for an article. Here's what Google News shows up, and that would seem to include the Phillipines media. There's not a single article on him; all are incidental mentions. I'm not the one who tagged this for notability, by the way. Coretheapple (talk) 16:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The search may be faulty though because of the article name: the person is called Jaime Augusto Zobel de Ayala. As the head of a major national conglomerate (and the country's oldest extant corporation), he has to be notable. --Sky Harbor (talk) 04:20, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * That's the same search. He just hasn't received much coverage. And nobody is arguing about the notability of his company, but it doesn't flow to him. See WP:BIG, WP:NOTINHERITED. Coretheapple (talk) 14:06, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. He's plenty notable, but you may need to tweak search results to include "ayala" in his name. His name is often abbreviated "JAZA", so "jaza ayala" also turns up a lot of results. TheCoffee (talk) 19:41, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete I fail to see how his notability is established through the sources in the article. Source 1 is an interview about philanthropy, 2 is dead, 3 talks about his life, 4 says he got an Asian management award, 5 seems to be a wrong link.  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 05:38, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep, but barely - He's one of the richest people in the Philippines and is the owner of several major companies. This isn't a strong enough claim to notability, but systemic bias could come into play here, since he does get covered from time to time though, especially in news media. As for the sources that Raykyogrou0, sources 3 and 4 could actually establish notability (unless they aren't independent), and the award mentioned, if prestigious enough, might itself just be enough to be a claim to notability (that's a big if though, hence the "weak" part of my !vote) Note that he's also frequently referred to with the surname Ayala, so if applicable, any search for sources should take that into account. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:12, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment An interview about someone's life doesn't add to notability and would only be helpful if he was notable. Is the "Asian management" award really notable?  Is it an Asian version of the Nobel prize or something?  Raykyogrou0  ( Talk ) 08:42, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep and strong move to Jaime Augusto Zobel de Ayala. Sources #3 and #4 should easily be enough to surpass WP:GNG, as these were pretty long features on this person, and we've previously kept articles where the sole reliable reference we got was based on half of a short news article. The part of WP:BIO where WP:GNG is referenced (WP:BASIC) states that "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." If we passed that, we do not necessarily have to use the other criteria on that page, which, TBH, isn't of much use to this guy.
 * We have two sources (multiple published secondary sources) in the article: Source #3 from the Philippine Star, and Source #4 of the Philippine Daily Inquirer. AFAIK, JAZA doesn't own newspapers, so it's secondary.
 * These are two separate (intellectually independent) newspapers, with separate articles written by different people.
 * These should easily pass WP:RS (reliable); I routinely use articles from these newspapers as references in WP:FLs and such.
 * These two newspapers are independent of the subject, unless of course JAZA bought an entire page for him since he has a lot of money (LOL). Plus, we have a picture of him at the World Economic Forum; I do not know of any other Filipino that went there who isn't a government official, and he isn't. Thai newspaper The Nation, when describing the members of the Asean Business Club advisory council of which JAZA is a part of, calls them "top corporate personalities in the region".
 * Finally, can anyone check out if JAZA did really win the Presidential Medal of Merit (Philippines)? If he won that then he should certainly pass WP:ANYBIO which states that a person is notable if "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor." Considering we have an article about the Presidential Medal of Merit (Philippines), that should mean that it is a "well-known and significant award or honor". – H  T  D  19:35, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems that JAZA was awarded the Philippine Legion of Honor, a much higher award than the Presidential Medal of Merit, so he certainly passes WP:ANYBIO now. – H T  D  19:43, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.