Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/James McCarthy (footballer born 1983)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Lack of evidence showing significant coverage in reliable sources.  Jujutacular  talk 03:50, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

James McCarthy (footballer born 1983)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Article about a footballer who has not played in a fully professional league, failing WP:NFOOTBALL, and has not received significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject, failing WP:GNG. Argyle 4 Life talk  16:24, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Even if he has made a first-team appearance for Cork City Football Club, the League of Ireland Premier Division is not a fully professional league according to the WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues list (greetings from Truro, Canada btw) Mayumashu (talk) 18:26, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 16:04, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 16:04, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:21, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. One of the goals of WikiProject Irish Football is to "Create an article on every League of Ireland player". While the League of Ireland isn't fully professional, it is the highest level of football in Ireland, the national league of the country. He has received coverage from official club websites, the official website of the League of Ireland, and independent news sites that report about the League of Ireland. Hsetne (talk) 16:33, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * My goal is to have an article about me, but it isn't going to happen because I'm not notable. the burden is on you to prove notability - can you do this? As you openly admit, this player fails WP:NFOOTBALL as well as WP:GNG, and isn't worthy of an article IMO. GiantSnowman 18:13, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If you become a player in the League of Ireland maybe someone will create one about you. WP:GNG: There are reliable, independent, secondary sources cited in his article. WP:NFOOTBALL: He has played at the top level of Irish football. Hsetne (talk) 18:21, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * GNG - no, they are either profiles or run-of-the-mill sports reports, which fails WP:NTEMP. NFOOTBALL - nope, doesn't mention "top level" football as being notable - it mentions "fully-professional league", which you have admitted the LoI isn't. Sorry. GiantSnowman 18:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Run-of-the-mill sports reports? Do you want me to cite a cover story in Time magazine? NFOOTBALL links here to pro leagues and top level leagues which are not fully professional. There should (and appears to be) exceptions for countries whose top level of football isn't fully pro, we're dealing with a national league that gets coverage in the national media. WikiProject Irish Football is to "Create an article on every League of Ireland player", going along with that project. Hsetne (talk) 18:45, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * McCarthy was on the front cover of Time magazine? Impressive. Any evidence? Individual WikiProjects do not have jurisdiction over the rest of Wikipedia. A WP could get created, its members could reach consensus on any ridiculous aims - "This WikiProject aims to write biographies about a family of imaginary clowns that live in my fridge" - but that does not mean it's viable with the wider rules on Wikipedia, does it? GiantSnowman 18:59, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you have to say about the rest of my response? i.e. NFOOTBALL links here to pro leagues and top level leagues which are not fully professional. There should (and appears to be) exceptions for countries whose top level of football isn't fully pro, we're dealing with a national league that gets coverage in the national media. --Hsetne (talk) 19:17, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, and WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues lists leagues purely to halt any "this player plays in the highest league in his country" arguments. Are you going to allow articles on players in top-level leagues in San Marino, Dijibouti or Guam? They will all be "a national league that gets coverage in the national media" - but it does not mean that such players are actually notable, does it? GiantSnowman 19:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not particularly interested in the top-level leagues in San Marino, Djibouti or Guam. I have no idea of the profile of these leagues or the players in those countries, do you? I also don't see Djibouti or Guam in the list, and San Marino is much further down the coefficient rankings than the League of Ireland. I'd actually question some of the leagues that are listed as fully pro, but that's not for here. Are you going to delete the majority of League of Ireland players, and IFA Premiership players, etc. from wikipedia? Players in these leagues are notable. There are players on wiki who've played in fully pro leagues, but are notable because of their time in Irish football. Hsetne (talk) 19:39, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * So you're admitting bias in favour of Irish players then? Even though both Ireland and San Marino are "top level national leagues", you're basically one set of people deserve articles but the other don't? Interesting. Players in Ireland are not notable, as the number of recent successful AfDs shows. Me & thee are never going to agree on this, so let's leave it be and let others have a say in this disussion. GiantSnowman 19:46, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Bias? Have a look at the UEFA coefficients ranking football leagues. You've been trying to put words into my mouth but it's not working for you. Ireland is actually ranked just below Finland, which wiki says is fully pro and allowed to have player articles. San Marino on the other hand is way down the list with a much, much lower coefficient. I've proposed a number of recent, successful, deletion of Irish footballers, which were deleted on the basis of notability, I've probably done more than most on here regarding this. Players in Ireland are notable. Just because there have been some deleted, some of which I proposed myself, doesn't mean that they all should be. --Hsetne (talk) 20:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * What does the UEFA coefficients have to do with accepted guidelines on Wikipedia? The only League of Ireland players who should have an article are those that are either playing in a fully professional league now or have done in the past. The only player in Cork City's current squad that meets the criteria here is Danny Murphy because he has played in the Football League for Queens Park Rangers and in the Scottish Premier League for Motherwell. Shane Duggan's article was deleted because he isn't notable either. He was a youth team player with my club but never made the first team and certainly didn't play in the Football League. Whereas Rory Patterson has had an article for years, despite playing in English non-league football and the IFA Premiership because he played in a fully professional league for Rochdale. Otherwise he wouldn't have been eligible for one until 2010, when he made his debut for the Northern Ireland national team. Even if notability guidelines were relaxed even more so that any top division player was classed as notable, Peter Krzanowski and many others would still fall short. Argyle 4 Life  talk  23:18, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I brought in UEFA coefficients to show the level of the league, it made sense to bring it into discussion when someone is comparing the league to those in San Marino, etc. There should be an exception to the fully pro league status. Rory Patterson is more notable for playing for FCUM and in the IFA Premiership than his time at Rochdale. Why mention just Rory Patterson though? What about all the other articles about footballers who have articles but haven't played in fully pro leagues? Are you going to delete the majority of articles about players in the League of Ireland, IFA Premiership, etc., or are you just focussing on Cork City. Shane Duggan is notable, despite not playing in a fully professional league, he has played as a full-time pro, he has been named in the PFAI team of the year, he has represented Ireland at U23 level. To suggest players aren't notable because the league isn't fully pro is laughable, it's the national league and receives national coverage. --Hsetne (talk) 05:19, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Any player that has an article without having played in a fully professional league does so because he has played for his national team at senior level or has been shown to meet the general notability guideline. I used Patterson as an example because without playing for Rochdale in the Football League he wouldn't have been notable for years. WP:NFOOTBALL explicitly states that; Players who have appeared, and managers who have managed, in a fully-professional league (as detailed here), will generally be regarded as notable. Guidelines are there for a reason and decided on by broad consensus of the community. I am not picking on Irish football or Cork City in general. I have been involved in the deletion process of players from numerous countries and I was brought to the page by a player who was only a youth team player for my club. If you have a problem with the guidelines and want every top league in the world to grant player notability, regardless of whether it is fully professional or not, then I suggest you make the case for it at WP:NSPORT. This is the last comment I shall make on this subject. Argyle 4 Life  talk  20:28, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - He has not played in a fully pro league and therefore fails WP:NSPORT, and there is insufficient coverage for him to meet WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:47, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Proposed solution The WP:NFOOTBALL is flawed because it doesn't take into account official governing body league rankings such as the UEFA coefficients but relies on it's own definition. If this player doesn't satisfy WP:NFOOTBALL, he still does satisfy WP:GNG. I propose improving the article rather than deleting it. Hsetne (talk) 05:45, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NSPORT failure. Number   5  7  09:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep He satisfies WP:GNG Loitid (talk) 09:09, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete, clearly fails WP:FOOTYN as he has not played in a fully-professional league. No real significant media coverage means he also fails WP:GNG. --Jimbo[online] 15:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.