Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/James Saldaña


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  → Call me  Hahc  21  00:38, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

James Saldaña

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For the simply staggering 28 references provided for this 3-line biography, few (if any) actually provide significant coverage of the subject. Those that do were published by his university. The vast majority are press-packet repeats from various small film festivals that showed his student film. Many are in the first person and were clearly provided by the subject. I don't think his being a (other) cameraman for an Emmy-nominated project is sufficient to confer notability which is the only real claim to notability against the criteria at WP:CREATIVE. Stalwart 111  01:03, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Our Road To Kosovo (the subject's student film) includes some related discussion, as does my user talk page. I originally suggested waiting until that AFD had been dealt with to allow the article's supporters the chance to contribute. But the article creator has suggested my view of notability is "extreme" so I'm bringing it to the community for consideration. Stalwart 111  01:10, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:25, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:25, 13 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Your view of notability is not at all "extreme", . It is well grounded in policy, guidelines and precedent. When such a brief article has 28 references, my suspicions immediately kick into high gear, especially when one simple statement has fourteen references. Far better for an article of this length to have three or four rock solid references than 28 weak ones. None of these references are from reliable, independent sources giving significant coverage to this person. Every single one is mediocre. This is a beginning filmmaker who may possibly be notable some day, but not yet.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  05:07, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per dubious notability and suspected WP:COS violation. Number   5  7  07:58, 13 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep If you're a scientist "notability" is conferred by having your research published under peer review at an industry conference or in a professional journal. Same goes in the film world, having your film screened at a film festival or receive an award at film festival is how "notability" is conferred; all film festivals use some form of jury review. I viewed Stalwart opinion as "extreme" because newspaper or magazine articles citing a filmmakers accomplishments are not how notability is established amongst filmmakers. Sure articles about a filmmakers accomplishments are great publicity but it's not the standard of "notability" for filmmakers. A film festival in of itself is "significant coverage" - even if the film festival is not so well known in the circles of popular culture. Saldana's accomplishments are all factual but don't seem to be notable to non-filmmakers, such as journalists. The fact that he was a student at the time, in a non-filmmaking graduate degree program (his resume is online), doesn't depreciate the accomplishment of having his Kosovo film shown in several "non-student" film festivals in "non-student" categories, such as, the Temecula Valley International Film Festival and the Sacramento Film and Music Festival. The Both are international film festivals, maybe not Sundance, but reputable all the same for filmmakers. Who sets the standard for filmmaker's notability, Wikipedia or the film industry? Film Blog 101 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Film Blog 101 (talk • contribs) 10:55, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note that this is the article creator and probably also the subject. Number   5  7  11:36, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * And to answer your question - Wikipedia's community of editors sets the standard for a filmaker's notability with reference to long-standing consensus and established guidelines and policy. Stalwart 111  13:01, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Stalwart said, "Wikipedia's community of editors sets the standard for a filmmaker's notability", yes on Wikipedia but that's not the standard in the film world or public consensus and that's my point. Notability in film like academia is defined by peer review, not notoriety in a news article. Film Blog 101 (talk) 16:36, 13 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - Stalwart thanks for taking my "extreme" comment out of context, making this personal and realiating against against my article. Film Blog 101 (talk) 11:31, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Your comment is available in all its original contextual glory on my talk page (which I did link to above). Stalwart 111  13:01, 13 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Stalwart Note that the the Oscars - Academy_Awards like many other film festivals and festivals awards is a process of peer review, "(i.e. only directors vote for directors, writers for writers, actors for actors, etc.). In all major categories" so what I said about establishing "notability" in film is factually correct. This practice is common throughout the film festival circuit and accepted by the public in general for the "notability" of a filmmakers accomplishments. News and magazine articles about filmmakers are generally considered good publicity, criticism and look really good on DVD covers or Amazon product pages, but filmmakers generally look to peers in their field as do academic researchers in order to establish "notability". Film Blog 101 (talk) 14:47, 13 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - Stalwart said, "I don't think his being a (other) cameraman for an Emmy-nominated project". That Emmy-nominated project To Die In Jerusalem originated from the Angelus Award winner Daughter's of Abraham; same producer and same plot as noted by the producer in the NY Times article. HBO picked up the Daughter's of Abraham film and expanded it as noted in the NY Times article, in The Southern Illinoisan ( a major regional newspaper not a local newspaper) and in the university newspaper.  The university article also notes that her crew for who went into the Palestinian West-Bank to film Daughter's of Abraham only consisted of two people, one of which was Saldana who already had a BFA degree in film and an undergraduate student with no degree. So Saldana as one of three contributors created Daughters of Abraham and To Die in Jerusalem is clearly a derivative work of that film. The producer confirms the relationship and the origin of the work that can only be attributed to three people; the producer never entered the Palestinian West-Bank for that initial version of the project. Film Blog 101 (talk) 12:12, 13 March 2014 (UTC)