Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jamie and Robert Patterson


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 00:05, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Jamie and Robert Patterson

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New Zealand's first IVF twins. The references at present are inadequate, but there is no reason why decent references couldn't be found. However, I think this is an invasion of the privacy of the people concerned, per WP:ONEEVENT. Compare with Louise Brown, the world's first IVF baby, who probably should continue to have her article, and Elizabeth Jordan Carr and Candice Reed, the first American and Australian IVF babies, where the articles might have the same problem. gadfium 00:58, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. - gadfium  01:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. - gadfium  01:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. This not only isn't Louise Brown, it's almost ten years afterwards.  Look, if this is notable, then in theory we would have to include the first IVF baby born in each country, right?  Maybe this would be sufficiently notable for nz.wikipedia, if it existed, but not here.   Un  sch  ool  06:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, first baby or first twins? Fertility Associates says "doctors ... who introduced in vitro fertilisation (IVF) to New Zealand in the early 1980s". A search of local newspaper headlines for "twins" returned nothing to substantiate, results from before and after 1986 but not that year. No results from Google or NZ Herald. Thought it could be a hoax. XLerate (talk) 07:36, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to find any online references to this either, and I'm rather suspicious of the house price given for Palmerston North at the time too. A hoax is a possibility . On the other hand, the same editor's contributions to Palmerston North on gangs, while unsourced, looks to be correct.- gadfium 08:09, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I take it back, just first impression, the Palmerston North gang section was spot on, the car loaned was a Saab. XLerate (talk) 23:45, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Keep I am the editor of the article so that probably means I'm biased but the truth is this is my first article so the lack of references is probably an oversight on my behalf. I added the article because I recently met Jamie Patterson and I remember myself when this happened, it was at the time a very significant story in New Zealand and for several years the twins continued to feature in womans magazines etc. Having lived in Palmerston North myself i also remember the public reaction to the event and when I met Jamie recently he was able to produce for me several newspaper articles photo-copied from the Parliamentary archives, one of which I quoted from in the article. I added the page as I have never attempted to look for something on wiki and not found it before, maybe thats just co-incidence but it was an opportunity to contribute. I can tell you from my own research that there was one test tube child born in New Zealand prior to this at St Georges hospital in Christchurch but the child died within 10 minutes of birth so when the twins were born it was considered the first successful use of the procedure. I think the event was not only significant in the history of New Zealand but also in the history of IVF as it shows how widespread the procedure had become by the mid eighties. Also in response to the comment above about the Palmerston North Gang problems yes it was a Saab, I am impressed with your research. I believe actually if my memory serves me well that it was the mayoral Saab (eg it was owned by the mayors office, not Mr Bell-Booth) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xtremevehiclesltd (talk • contribs) 13:34, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, mostly per WP:BLP1E and lack of established notability in general. Over half the article is also unreferenced - a BLP no-no (just noting, not really an argument for deletion). MuZemike  ( talk ) 20:10, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Being famous in Palmerston North does not qualify anyone for inclusion in Wikipedia. --Helenalex (talk) 08:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For the article to be kept I think two items are needed:
 * 1. per WP:ONEEVENT the article focuses on the event rather than the people, Chris and Cru Kahui murders for example.
 * 2. notability is established per WP:NOTE, for example a date, page and article name from The Press or NZ Herald would be a solid argument to keep. I looked on the Palmerston North City Library newspaper headlines catalogue but results appeared to only go back to 1992. The local search mentioned above was the ODT/DPL. XLerate (talk) 04:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - as per nom. It seems like an invasion of privacy; and the topic doesn't seem notable enough to justify that. The lack of sources compounds the problem, and judging by the comment from the article's creator it contains original research as well. The bit about house prices is well out in left field. I appreciate that Xtremevehiclesltd wanted to contribute but perhaps a less sensitive topic might be a better starting point. NZ forever (talk) 02:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.