Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jan Berg (footballer, born 1943)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Fenix down (talk) 22:02, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Jan Berg (footballer, born 1943)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Unexplained removal of PROD: article subject fails WP:NFOOTY due to the Norwegian men's football league not being 'fully professional', also fails WP:GNG due to lack of sustained, non-routine coverage in reliable sources. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 14:43, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:45, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:46, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:46, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:49, 8 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete - doesn't meet NFOOTBALL and no evidence he meets GNG either. If coverage is out there please ping me. GiantSnowman 18:09, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I know jack about football, but does playing multiple matches in the European Cup Winners' Cup, including the quarter-finals, equate to some sort of notability? Thanks.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:37, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Under NFOOTBALL, no - that requirement is that you have to play in a competitive match between two teams from fully professional leagues. In theory, playing at that high level, even if for a semi-pro team, would surely generate enough coverage to meet GNG - the issue is that no such sources have been presented. GiantSnowman 11:11, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment That the article is poorly written and lack sources is not a valid reason to delete articles about notable subjects. Mentoz (talk) 02:32, 10 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I disagree on the assessment here, I feel GNG can be established with historical archive searches. There is enough offline content per National Library Norway. Govvy (talk) 12:43, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't want to be one of those annoying nominators who tries to rebut every !vote. But just a quick note here if I may: I can see the guy's name has lots of hits in this archive. But it mostly appears to be trivial mentions in squad listings, stats compendiums etc. You've made several boilerplate keep votes across all of these discussions (as it your right). But you have only ever made vague waves towards WP:MUSTBESOURCES. For an, ahem, "hugely prominent" footballer I would expect to see at least WP:3SOURCES addressing him directly and in detail. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 18:09, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * This is the first post that I posted, from all the nominations you sent to AfD, I looked at all of them that you nominated and there are a number of AfD's that you nominated that probably deserve to be deleted. However I feel that a fair number need to be kept. It feels like you have rushed through a number of articles into AfD. I can't read all the citations, but there are a number of newspaper articles on the players, which I don't understand, can't read and there is sources out there. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Govvy (talk) 20:13, 10 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per Govvy - evidently a hugely prominent player in Norwegian football Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:05, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - Yes, I made the article, and could probably have done a better job doing so, but as I mentioned above, that the article is poorly written and lack sources is not a valid argument for deletion. This guy played in several seasons during the amateur era of a now fully-professional league, and thus meet WP:NFOOTBALL, atleast this was the consensus when I was editing actively a few years ago. Norwegian sources are generally hard to find for that time-period, because they are mostly offline as Govvy stated above, and I would suggest Aftenposten's archive would be the best place to find sources for this particular player. Mentoz (talk) 02:32, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Looking at the nominators edits from 7th and 8th of February, they made a whole bunch of nomination for deleting under the misconception that the Norwegian top tier is not a fully-professional league. Some of these Norwegian footballers are even well-known that "everyone" that follows Norwegian football know who are, like Arild Berg. I'm not actively editing Wikipedia anymore, but deleting these articles will be a loss for Wikipedia. It's easy to slap on a banner with the text "does not meet WP:NFOOTBALL or WP:GNG", it's much harder to find and add sources to convince other editors that several douzens of articles meet GNG within a week. If the Norwegian top league isn't considered a fully-professional league anymore, these articles should be gathered in one AfD as it'll be the same discussion in most of them. Mentoz (talk) 02:52, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I didn't do that because they are not covered by WP:NFOOTBALL and individually need to stand or fall by WP:GNG. Some will pass (like Arild Berg). Others won't. Incidentally, since you present yourself as an expert on the subject here, do you know if/when the league did turn 'fully professional'? My feeling is that the current provisional 2001 cut-off date needs to be nudged forward somewhat. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 18:09, 10 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per Govvy. Microwave Anarchist (talk) 12:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per above.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:07, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I again find this a strange argument. If Norway was a professional league in 1968 he would be accepted under NFootball. However he played in European football's second most important tournament at the time (behind the European Cup) in a part time team so isn't notable? Madness! Davidstewartharvey (talk) 19:16, 14 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.